Alright, last message I will probably have time to answer in some
time. But since I introduced the tool, I feel like at least I need to
give the rationale.

Olivier Dion <[email protected]> writes:

> My only concern with Zulip is indexing by search engines.  This is an
> ongoing issue [0] that has not been implemented yet.  IRC and mailing
> lists do not have this fundamental limitation.

Olivier brings a very valid concern. We want a tool inclusive for
newcomers, a tool that can gather all those small bite sized pieces of
knowledge that gets lost in the different communication channels we
have. For example, at Guix Days, Janneke was very happy when I shared
with him some tips and tricks regarding the `emacs-guix' package REPL
breaking, and some filters for the comint buffers. The point is, much of
the very important knowledge is somewhere lost in the sea of
communication tools our community uses, and we need a tool that brings
to the surface all this hidden knowledge from our darkest alleys.

As an exercise to the reader, I encourage you to try to find a
conversation about packaging Zulip in Guix that took place on the
official Zulip development community[1].

[1] https://zulip.com/development-community

And for comparison, you can try to find out from where I salvaged the
Guix port of ZMK[2]. It's on the Guix devel mailing list. If you need to
cheat, the Codeberg description of the repository I link has a reference
to the source message from the Guix devel mailing list.

[2] https://codeberg.org/pastor/guix-zmk

Going back to Olivier's concern. Those of you that have tried to find
the Zulip message through the Zulip global search, should have found it
easily. On the other hand, those who have tried to find it through your
search engine, with prompts such as "Packaging Zulip in Guix" will
probably have not found it. Zulip seems to have a scriptable Python
API. So I'm wondering whether we set something up that the search engine
would index, such as gathering all topics created in Zulip and exposing
them in a way that can be indexed and reference the correct
room/topic. We need some exploration on this regard.

> Know that I've talked about Zulip with Sergio, extensively, before Guix
> Days and I am all for it.  I really think this could boost the Guix
> community but also the Guile ecosystem at large.  I just wanted to point
> out this limitation.

I didn't have anyone else that would listen to me crying :p

All jokes aside, during the development of BLUE, we found ourselves
wanting to collaborate with different Guile projects, and the
fragmentation of the community made it impractical in a way that
completely restrained any collaboration. We want to be able to ping
Spritely to discuss how the backtraces enhancements play with Goblins,
we want to speak with Janneke about what BLUE is missing for properly
replacing Autotools in Dezyne[3], we want to collaborate with Andrew to
integrate his development environment with our Guile development quality
of life improvements. To reach everyone I mentioned and have some small
talks during development, we need Matrix, Mail, and Telegram. Yes, we
could have sent a mail, but this is inconvenient for the type of dynamic
conversations we wanted to have, so what ended up happening was that we
simply didn't communicate.

[3] https://cgit.git.savannah.nongnu.org/cgit/dezyne.git

Another thing important for us is to have regular meetings through Jitsi
while Spritely, I believe uses BigBlueButton, and Zulip seems to allow
you to integrate with different call providers[4].

[4] https://zulip.com/integrations/category/communication

With all that said, I'm not saying that Zulip is the tool to fit
everyone needs, but it surely checks a lot of boxes for us. So I would
like to encourage everyone to share what they need to ease their
collaboration with the community, instead of discussing if they like
this or that tool. Once we know everyone needs, we can argue whether
Zulip can fit their goals.


Best regards,
Sergio

PS: I'm quite occupied lately, so I won't be able to participate much in
the conversation, but I hope everyone feels welcomed to share their
concerns and feedback. I will read you eventually!

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