David,
First, you aren't forced to use a non-English version of WE (smile).
But if you are using a Norwegian version of Window-Eyes with an English
synthesizer, what would it sound like to have the Norwegian localized
version of the string "nineteen" and the Norwegian localized version of
the string "ninety" come through an English synthesizer? So it isn't so
much the synthesizer as it is the localized Window-Eyes strings being
used. We aren't doing this to be mean <smile>, we are doing this
because it makes sense.
As for the 2 number rules, I'm guessing your extensive search of all
languages <smile> doesn't surpass the experience I've heard from our
localizers. The synthesizer options wasn't my idea, this came from
several of our localizers. I would argue if this was as common as you
say, why doesn't the localized speech synthesizer do it natively?
But the beauty is we've given you the ability to do whatever you want in
an app. You can trap the number pronunciation event and do whatever it
is you want for whatever language you are dealing with. It is extremely
easy to override whatever Window-Eyes is doing. I guarantee no matter
what approach we select, there will be someone that wants it
differently...which is why we've given the tools to do your own thing.
All versions of Window-Eyes ship with the English resources. It is just
if it finds the non-English ones, it uses them. So you could set your
copy of Window-Eyes up to Run with English strings and act as if it is
an English copy. You still would have all the other localized files
like context help, tip of the day, phonetic spelling, set files, etc.
not be in English, but everything else would be English. I could walk
you through the couple of steps if you are so interested.
Or, we also offer a full English copy to any non-English Window-Eyes
user. The only issue is you can't have multiple versions of Window-Eyes
installed on the same machine but you could install one of the languages
normally and install the other as a mobile install on your hard drive.
Setup two separate desktop shortcuts and you launch whichever version
you want.
So I really don't think things are as gloom and doom as you seem to be
alluding to. We really do like our non-English users (smile).
Doug
On 5/23/2012 11:28 AM, David wrote:
Doug,
I disagree a bit, when you state that English rules should not be used
in Non-English versions. Even if I am forced to use a non-English
version of the WE, I still do most of my computing in English. As
such, I am running Eloquence. Eloquence should - in my opinion - be
handling numbers according to English rules, no matter which localized
version of WE you are running. So, in a future version of WE, the
verbose section should have a kind of choice, where the user could
decide which rules - local or English, or any other locale version -
he wanted to use.
OK, so what about the app? Well, since it is going to be released
internationally, I do have to consider wishes even from Non-English
version users. The way things are handled, I don't see that this will
cause any inconvenience to the English users, but definitely will be
able to handle something that GW forcefully have removed from
non-English versions - if I get your statements correct.
Besides, since I now tell you, that we are using the 2+2
pronounciation even in non-English languages, I really don't
understand why GW ever dropped the rule for the non-English versions
of WE. I have already received feedback from a few non-English users,
who can confirm the 2+2 format, is quite commonly used
internationally. So, then, why does Window-Eyes not follow custom?
Another user pointed this out, that producing apps when using a
non-English version of WE, is quite challenging sometimes. I really
wish GW would take steps to let us use the English environment, when
developing apps. It is somehow discouraging for app developers outside
the English-speaking world, to run into this kind of situations.
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Doug Geoffray <mailto:[email protected]>
*To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Sent:* Wednesday, May 23, 2012 4:18 PM
*Subject:* Re: To all Natively English speaking users - I need
some feedback:
David,
Because you are using a non-English version of Window-Eyes you are
getting a different view than someone using English. With the
English Window-Eyes 4 digit numbers are broken as you say. But
this is actually a verbosity option in the Screen / Other group.
There is a Numbers option which can be set to off, on or
Synthesizer. Off just speaks all numbers one digit at a time.
Synthesizer will send the number to the synthesizer untouched,
allowing it to speak it they way it would. On will cause
Window-Eyes to do some massaging of the text. So in the case of a
4-digit number, it will break it into 2 2-digit numbers for
example. It does other things with times and money and such as well.
But for non-English languages, even if this setting is set to on,
it forces it internally to synthesizer. It doesn't make sense to
use English rules on a non-English Window-Eyes.
Doug
On 5/23/2012 9:50 AM, David wrote:
In my local Non-English language, we often use to divide the four
digit year number, into two groups of two-digits. That is, the
year 1995, would be pronounced as 19 95.
As I am working on the Extended Dictionary app, that has been
anounced on the list earlier, I wanted to know, what is the
official way of pronouncing year numbers in English. Or, at
least, what is the general wish of the community. As you all will
have noticed, Eloquence by standard wants to read out the year as
a full four-digit number. At least to me, I find that rather
wearisome, as the number 1981 would produce more verbage, than
would 19 81.
The app is doing quite a bit of Date handling, and there is a
chance here to modify the way of reading year numbers. And, just
to calm you all down, the stuff can easily be modified by the
end-user. Yet, I want to know, if it would be the wish of the
community, to have some kind of modified pronounciation of the
years, shipping with the app.
All feedback will be appreciated. Thanks alot,
David
(The Author of the Extended Dictionary app)
PS: The Extended Dictionary appp is currently in its Beta-testing
process. Hopefully, it will be made available to the community
later this summer. Still, this question goes to the whole
community, since it has been considered of vital importance. All
the modification the app will be performing to any speech output,
can be fully controled by the user. Even if the app ships with a
set of modifications, the user is free to do what he wants with
the shipped entries.
