----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Netherton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > (E., where did you get 1484? The website says 1515-23.)
That's another case of different sources, different dates, but 1515-1523 must be a website type; it's way out. This is one of his earlier works, and the style of the garments is well in line with what I've seen in the mid 1480s. I'm not sure where I first saw the 1484 date, but since I spent ages trying to track down a hi-res version of this painting, I've looked at lots of low res versions with (varying) attributions/dates/etc. > I suspect there's a waist seam hidden in that fold at the waist, despite > Houston saying there's none. It was, in fact, Houston who made me try so hard to track this sucker down! I didn't believe her seaming then, and I don't believe it now. However, there are a few Maitre de Francois (sorry that's the only name I have for him) illuminations c1475 that show similar sleeve heads (except with a rounded point) going into a vertical side-back seam, with no waist seam. > No clue how the sleeve itself is shaped but I truly doubt Houston's > diagram; > it wouldn't want to bend in three dimensions and still leave room for an > arm. > Where to put the curves is another matter. I would probably start with > some > flexible wool and shape it over a suitable body to find out. Not high on > my > priority list at the moment, though. I've fit this sleeve a few times, though for c1510-20 dresses. It is NOT fun to fit. I'll try to scan in or sketch out the sleeve head shape that I wound up with tonight. The extra panels at the torso do help a ton with setting the sleeve in. By the way, the reason I am so forlorn that the "Marriage at Cana" by G. David has not aged terribly well is that the woman in red, sitting with her back towards the audience, is also (as far as I can tell) wearing a dress with the sleeves seamed this way. There are a handful of other images showing it; if anyone needs them, let me know, but expect to wait a day or so until I get the chance to upload them! -E House _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
