The dyestuff in woad is chemically very similar (in fact, it might be identical, but I can't verify that off-hand) to that in indigo, but woad doesn't contain as much, and, naturally enough, European woad dyers resisted the "new fangled" indigo. Both woad and indigo are vat dyes--the blue dyestuff is not water soluble, a real drawback in dyeing, and has to be treated with a strong reducing agent to make it water soluble. The baths smell bad partly because guess what the strong base was back in the day--stale urine. Although I understand stale urine doesn't smell like the fresh stuff. The fiber/fabric is dipped in the bath, and, as it comes out and hits the air, the dyestuff is re-oxidized and turns blue. Blue jeans run mainly because there is excess dye left on the surface of the fabric that is not absorbed into the yarns/fibers. Ann Wass In a message dated 2/1/2011 6:35:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, sha...@collierfam.com writes:
I don't know if this has any thing to do with it, but woad was the blue used before the discovery of indigo. It smelled so bad that in Elizabethan times, woad dyers had to be located outside of town. Woad is interesting in that in the dye bath, it appears a muddy yellow-green, but when the dyed fiber is exposed to air, it turns blue. I don't know if this meant that, if wet: 1. it turned/lost color 2. it smelled bad again Indigo, once discovered, was considered a better blue dye. But it had been discovered by the 1700's; and we know from blue jeans that it runs, so maybe a chemical dye that wouldn't run or fade was the reason for the popularity/snob appeal of the new blue. Sharon C. -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of michaeljdeib...@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 3:19 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] his blue coat Sorry I ant include exact dates as I'm at work and it's a hassle to look it up on my phone! Indigo dyes were around for a long time. However, they were made from extracts of plants. This process was extremely costly for the plants themselves, it took multiple baths in the he in order to reach that deep rich color that was desires. Because of this expense, only the upper class, nobility and the clergy were able to afford garments in these colors. I also believe that that dye was by colorfast. In the 1760's, the first synthetic dyes were discovered, though it took tip about the turn of the century till the process was refined. Because it wa now synthetic, the lower classes could finally afford garments in this color range. Again, while I cannot pinpoint my sources by memory, I had looked into this last spring while costuming the musical Sweeny Todd where the director wanted a vibrant purple waistcoat for Pirrelli's character. Because of the year it was set, there was no way He could have afforded that color but unfortunately my research went unheaded. Michael Deibert OAS AAS LLS Sent from my iPhone On Feb 1, 2011, at 18:04, Marie Stewart <maric...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi folks. > I must, respectfully, disagree with Ann on a point about the color > Prussian Blue Prussian Blue is defined as absorbing wavelengths about > around 680 nm, causing it to appear in visible light as approximately > 700 THz. Which is a lovely strong blue leaning towards the violet end > of the spectrum, not to the green/yellow end. > (Methods of Chemical Analysis, 1998) > > I will agree with her that I misspoke when I said it was and aniline > dye, its a cyanometalate. I would have been more accurate to say that > Prussian blue was one of the first chemically synthesized dyes. > Thanks for the redirect on that one. > > (navel gazing: We know that the dye was in the painters sphere in the > early 1700s (18th century), but when did it move to the dyers sphere? > Was it in the mid-1700s, thanks to Macquer's experiments with reduction, thereby > giving an easily transportable salt? Or was it used popularly, or rarely > before that. I'm going to go have to go research this. Fascinating > topic. > > As a nifty side note, and a easy visual reference (although I got it > from Wikipedia, so take it with a big grain of NaCl) the midnight blue > crayon was once colored with and called Prussian blue. > > Mari > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
