On Sep 23, 2008, at 8:08 PM, Brendan Borlase wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 9:39 AM, Arthus Erea <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Sep 23, 2008, at 7:04 PM, Brendan Borlase wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 3:44 AM, Arthus Erea <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 23, 2008, at 8:47 AM, Brendan Borlase wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 8:29 PM, drzax <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree that this is very unintuative and I was more than a  
>>>>>> little
>>>>>> confused when I first saw this behaviour. I don't think it's  
>>>>>> enough
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> say to theme authors 'please style unpublished posts
>>>>>> differently'. I
>>>>>> strongly feel unpublished posts should not be displayed on the
>>>>>> front
>>>>>> end by default. Administrators should have an option to put the
>>>>>> system
>>>>>> into some kind of preview mode. A simple get parameter would
>>>>>> probably
>>>>>> sufice IMHO.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> They certainly shouldn't (seconded!). The front end should only  
>>>>> ever
>>>>> show
>>>>> published posts - including when logged in - and really, in  
>>>>> future,
>>>>> should
>>>>> only show one's own posts (perhaps all published for a site  
>>>>> admin).
>>>>
>>>> I'm confused. Why on earth would it not show all published posts?
>>>>
>>>> That seems 1 billion times more confusing. IMHO, we should *never*
>>>> hide published posts from users–whether in the frontend or backend.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry, I'll make it clearer. Anything published by the same logged  
>>> in
>>> user should be visible. Key word is "published" here.
>>
>> Are you sure you mean published?
>>
>> I can in no way support hiding posts from logged in users which are
>> visible from logged out visitors!
>>
>
> What? Where did I say that? This has only ever been a discussion
> about logged in users viewing draft via main page. I have said zero
> about non-logged in users. Let me try (again) to make this clear.

Right... but the assumption is that non-logged in users can only see  
published posts.

>
>
> Logged in users should only see published posts on the main page.

Agreed.

>
>
> Logged in users should not see drafts on the main page.

Agreed.

>
>
> Not logged in users should only see published posts.

Agreed.

>
>
> Not logged in users should not see drafts (period).

Agreed.

>
>
> Really not sure how that is unclear? Sorry, but it seems I am being
> miss-quoted and I don't really enjoy that too much. ;)

I am not intentionally mis-quoting you. Rather, there appears to be  
some confusing (you were talking about published posts, when I thought  
this conversation was about draft posts).

>
>
> I did suggest that ACLs could be used to control how much a
> logged in user could see (again, in a multi-blog context) so perhaps
> that lead to the confusion?
>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ideally (ACLs?) a site admin should be able to see all published  
>>> posts
>>> and in a multi-site blog, so should any additional editors -  
>>> logged in
>>> users perhaps might see only their own drafts? There is a lot of  
>>> scope
>>> to build a good ACL model.
>>
>> Why would a user *not* be able to see published posts? It's  
>> published,
>> for crying out loud. Why hide it?
>>
>> Frankly, I am dumbfounded that we would consider something so
>> confusing as hiding published posts from _anyone_.
>>
>
> Again, huh? I said "see own drafts" not "see own published posts".

"The front end should only ever show published posts - including when  
logged in - and really, in future, should only show one's own posts  
(perhaps all published for a site admin)."

That sounded like seeing only ones own published posts to me – as did  
your continual references to "published posts" when it now seems you  
mean draft posts.

For example:
"Ideally (ACLs?) a site admin should be able to see all published posts
and in a multi-site blog, so should any additional editors - logged in
users perhaps might see only their own drafts? There is a lot of scope
to build a good ACL model. "

Again, that sounded to me like you were suggesting that only site  
admins should be able to view everyone's published posts (which rather  
defeats the point of published posts, no?).

> No offence Arthus, but your answers don't make much sense to me.

None taken. I guess what you were saying just didn't make sense to me.

> I have not once stated published posts should be hidden. Only drafts,
> and only in context. Which is pretty much how most CMS platforms
> tend to handle them - and that is typically based on a great deal of
> user feedback.

I agree – I guess I was confused by all your talk of published posts  
(which, frankly, I don't think have anything to do with the matter at  
hand).

> I think a plugin that allows people to inject drafts into the  
> 'logged in'
> user view of the front page is a great idea.

Agreed.

> But as a 'stock' default, it's going to be atypical against what most
> people have experienced in the past.

Agreed, though there is talk of having a "preview mode" built into core.

Proposals for the preview mode include being able to click the site  
link in the top right to enter preview mode.

>
>
> Obviously I need to work on my communication skills. :D

As do I. :)

I'm glad to see we actually agree and I was just confused by your  
phrasing. Sorry about that... :)

Best,
Arthus
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