Endre Stølsvik wrote:
I personally wonder what _full_ open-sourcing of java actually would
accomplish? How do you want Sun to do this? Slam a Apache-license on the
code, and say "okay, folks, here it is - we're off"?
Well, sure. That would be good.
I believe that it could fragment into a million different,
half-abandoned projects without any proper steering - who is to decide
which new method to put into java.lang.String? How would compatibility
between implementations be defined?
Those two questions are spec issues, and independent of whether or not
there is an implementation of the spec under an open source license.
The spec will continue to evolve through the JCP process, and just like
now, implementations will follow that spec and be tested by the
associated TCK provided by the expert group if they are to be called
"Java", regardless of the license of the implementation's source code.
Open Source java wouldn't be the same if there wasn't some standard to
follow and adhere to. If this "standard" is defined rather more by one
company than the rest - what is the real problem? As long as this one
company still pours a bunch of money on the steering and progress of the
project, isn't this better than one dozen open source projects that
themselves would have to decide between them which new method, or worse,
which new API, to include?
I'm not sure how to answer this. I believe you are a little confused
about how the JCP works and what we're doing here, and people are asking
for.
First, we aren't advocating changes in the way Java SE specification is
defined. Rather, we are just creating an implementation of the same
Java SE spec that Sun follows, but under the Apache License, and the Sun
announcement is about their intention to distribute *their*
implementation of the Java SE spec under an open source license.
Second, the Java SE specification - the 'standard' you refer to - is
already defined by multiple companies and individuals that work on the
Java SE specification Expert Group, of which Sun is the Spec Lead.
These questions should also be answered by the folks that continually
scream about "OSS'ing Java": may we not risk that the whole java-thing
falls apart at the seams if this actually happens? Who should, for
example, run the JCP?
That's an orthogonal issue, independent of implementation of specifications.
OSS-ing Java SE is IMO just like OSS-ing Java EE (well, J2EE back then).
There was much consternation that the sky would fall in terms of
splintering the J2EE standard, but now 3-4 years later we've seen no
such problems and a rather healthy Java EE ecosystem with both
open-source (Geronimo, JBoss, JOnAS and Sun's Glassfish) and proprietary
implementations (WebLogic, WebSphere, Sun's Whatever) of the spec
peacefully coexisting.
In fact, it's clear to me that OSS in Java EE has had a very positive
effect on both evolving the spec for users (i.e. the Spring and
Hibernate influence on Java EE/EJB3) as well as making the technology
available to end-users at a faster pace.
In my opinion, we, as in "the folks that aren't fully in MS's pockets",
should be somewhat grateful for Sun's continual backing and support of
java, while still try to hold them somewhat in check to not lock it in or
away, but rather open it up for full, working, open source alternatives
(Like with the Swing issue, where they apparently pretty much aren't
allowing for a proper alternative, which should be fixed).
What's the "Swing issue"?
PS: How do you folks feel about Tiger's development model?
Do you mean Mustang via "Project Peabody"? I like the community aspect
- it was a great step forward for Sun - and could be improved by adding
committers from other companies and making the code available under an
open source license.
PPS: Why does Sun really bother to pour money into Java at all? The
reason, I've come to understand, _was_ that they then could sell a bunch
of their big-iron boxes to companies when the small intel-servers couldn't
cope with a success of their developed java code. That argument is gone
some years ago - so what's really in it for Sun, other than prestige?
To be frank, IMO it's leverage over a major control point in the
software industry, which doesn't need to change if they OSS their
implementation.
geir
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Terms of use : http://incubator.apache.org/harmony/mailing.html
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
