Personally, I would not be against a *short and simple* code of conduct that specifically addresses issues we have seen. I'm imagining clear guidelines that help people express themselves in a thoughtful and polite way. Something in the style of the Hacker News commenting guidelines[1] (at least the first four; the rest are specific to HN/Reddit-like sites).
One of the best examples I've seen in the wild had a single rule: no personal attacks. It's simple to understand and follow with no risk of stifling or derailing real discussions, and yet unambiguously rules out the majority of rude comments I see online (ignoring spam and outright trolling). I do *not* like Rust's code of conduct specifically. It does not provide clear guidelines on civility/politeness and covers too many other things, including a lot of (often political) baggage. Why is the idea that "everything is a tradeoff" enshrined as a rule? The rule on politeness is clearly deemphasized: "Please be kind and courteous. There’s no need to be mean or rude." is so vague it may as well not be in the code of conduct. We should *assume* people set out to be kind and courteous and help them do that consistently. The "Citizen Code of Conduct" they link to has even more baggage and I believe it should *not* serve as the basis for anything we might adopt as a community. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html see section "In Comments" On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 1:13 AM, Simon Peyton Jones via Haskell-community < haskell-community@haskell.org> wrote: > Friends > > > > I second what Tom says below. > > > > Almost everyone expresses their views with respect, even when > disagreeing. The exceptions are (in my guess) mostly unintentional, at > least in the extent of the offence caused. That does not make them > unimportant, because a slow slippage in our collective standards is, over > time corrosive. But it does mean that we can draw breath, as Tom has > helpfully done here, and without condemning anyone reset our standards. > > > > I’ve been talking to a couple of people about whether it would be useful > to have an explicit Haskell Community Code of Conduct. Many online > communities have one (e.g. Rust > <https://www.rust-lang.org/en-US/conduct.html>), and it might be helpful > for everyone to have a concrete baseline rather than an unwritten > standard. Any views on that? > > > > Simon > > > > *From:* Libraries [mailto:libraries-boun...@haskell.org] *On Behalf Of *Tom > Murphy > *Sent:* 02 April 2017 19:18 > *To:* Fumiaki Kinoshita <fumiex...@gmail.com> > *Cc:* libraries <librar...@haskell.org> > *Subject:* Civility notes (was "Traversable instances for (,,) a b") > > > > Hi Fumiaki! > > I agree with you that some poorly-chosen words by a few people have > soured this conversation, but please don't let that turn you completely off > of the productive conversation most of us are attempting to have! I think > it's largely been successful, too: even if many of us haven't changed our > -1/+1 votes, I for one have had my ideas challenged and have a more nuanced > view than before talking with everyone here. > > Henning and Edward are two examples (one from each side of the +1/-1 > chasm) who have been aided by this discussion, in making important progress > to finding a middle ground (each in the form of proposed compiler changes). > > To the rest of us: Fumiaki regretting having posted here is a pretty > stark example of why speaking politely matters. People being scared away > and feeling unwelcome is a real phenomenon, and we need to do our part to > fix it. I'd propose: > > - If you haven't read it already, SPJ recently wrote a heartfelt > letter on the subject [0]. We've gotten better since then, but clearly > we're not finished. > > - Civility is a norm, and norms sometimes need to be enforced. From a > distance, we all look bad (and unwelcoming!) if anyone is hostile and we > don't make it clear it's not acceptable. Speak up! That said, everyone > makes mistakes - try to give people space to apologize and move on. > > - If someone says something insulting to you, please take that as a > sign to become more polite, not less so. The downward spiral is real. > > > > If you're called out for saying something regrettable (again, > regardless of if you're +1 or -1 on this issue), *please* take our desire > for civil conversation seriously. Responses like (I'm paraphrasing, and not > trying to cite anyone specifically): "It was a joke (mostly)" and "It's > your fault if you didn't get the joke" are worse than not writing anything > at all. Ideal would be a quick "Sorry!" > > Thanks, all! > > Tom > > > [0] https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell/2016-September/024995.html > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 12:11 PM, Fumiaki Kinoshita <fumiex...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > The discussion has diverged to flaming due to a few offensive people. I > guess I shouldn't have posted a proposal here, I should have submitted a > patch instead. > > > > 2017-03-23 19:53 GMT+09:00 Fumiaki Kinoshita <fumiex...@gmail.com>: > > It's surprising that they are missing (forgive me, I'm not here to make > people grumpy). > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Libraries mailing list > librar...@haskell.org > http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/libraries > > > > _______________________________________________ > Haskell-community mailing list > Haskell-community@haskell.org > http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-community > >
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