I think the difficulty has always been in finding enough people who are * Well-informed and well-qualified * Willing to spend the time to standardise language features
GHC does not help the situation: it's a de-facto standard, which reduces the incentives to spend time in standardisation. I don’t think we should blame anyone for not wanting to invest this time -- no shame here. It is a very significant commitment, as I know from editing the Haskell 98 report and the incentives are weak. Because of that, I am not very optimistic about finding such a group -- we have been abortively trying for several years. If we want to change that, the first thing is to build a case that greater standardisation is not just an "abstract good" that we all subscribe to, but something whose lack is holding us back. Simon | -----Original Message----- | From: Haskell-prime <[email protected]> On Behalf Of | Mario Blaževic | Sent: 05 October 2018 17:47 | To: [email protected] | Subject: Re: Quo vadis? | | On 2018-10-05 09:10 AM, Henrik Nilsson wrote: | > Hi, | > | > On 10/05/2018 01:20 PM, Mario Blažević wrote: | >> I hereby propose we formally disband the present Haskell 2020 | >> committee. Our performance has been so dismal | > | > It has. | > | > And I should apologise in particular: I've just had far less time than | > I thought over the past year for a variety of reasons. | > | >> that I feel this is the | >> only course of action that gives Haskell 2020 any chance of fruition. | >> A new committee could then be formed with some more dedicated | membership. | > | > I'm less convinced about that, though. I believe those who signed up | > for H2020 actually are people who believe in the value of an updated | > standard and has core expertise to make it happen. | | Regarding the beliefs, if we really represent the most zealous group | of Haskell enthusiasts, I have to say the community is in deep trouble. I | have no evidence, but I can only hope you're wrong. | | As for the expertise, my impression is that *everybody* who self- | nominated for the committee got accepted. My own self-nomination e-mail | [1] explicitly said that | | | > The main reason I'm applying is because I'm afraid that the commitee | > might disband like the previous one. If there are enough members | > already, feel free to ignore my nomination. | | Yet I'm in. This was not a high bar to clear. | | | > I can't see how giving up and forming a new group would speed things | > up or even increase the chance of success. | | I was kinda hoping for a Simon ex machina, where a few universally- | accepted members of the community hand-pick a new committee. | Alternatively, we could come up with some stricter criteria for the next | committee before we disband but that assumes we can even get a quorum. | | Lest I'm suspected of some Machiavellian plot, let me be clear that | I refuse to be a part of the next committee, if my proposal should be | accepted. Honestly I feel that all members of the present committee with | any sense of shame should recuse themselves as well, but that's not up to | me. | | | > Instead, what about focusing on identifying a couple of things that | > absolutely would have to be in H2020 to make a new standard | > worthwhile, like multi-parameter type classes, possibly GADTs, then | > figure out what else is needed to support that (like what Anthony | > Clayden sketched), and with that as a basis, find out exactly what | > technical problems, if any, are hindering progress? | > | > If this could be neatly summarized, then we'd actually be in a | > position to make some progress. | | That is much the plan we agreed on over a year ago during ICFP 2018. | The activity since then is plain to see. | | | [1] | http://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-prime/2015- | September/003939.html | | _______________________________________________ | Haskell-prime mailing list | [email protected] | http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-prime _______________________________________________ Haskell-prime mailing list [email protected] http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-prime
