> From: Gavin Smith <gavinsmith0...@gmail.com> > Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 18:22:03 +0000 > Cc: Patrice Dumas <pertu...@free.fr>, > jean.christophe.hel...@traductaire-libre.org, > stefankan...@gmail.com, vincent....@hotmail.fr, emacs-de...@gnu.org, > r...@gnu.org, help-texinfo@gnu.org > > On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 06:09:20PM +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > The node name may be visible in the output, so if English node names are > > > used they won't be in the translated manual language. So I do not think > > > that is it correct, in general, to use the English node names even if > > > they link to the correct node in a translated manual with English node > > > names as anchors. > > > > Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying. What do you mean by > > "visible in the output"? which output? > > The Info output, I believe. Suppose there is a cross-reference to a node > in the Emacs manual, "Select Buffer". This would appear in Info output > as "*note (emacs)Select Buffer::." The English words "Select Buffer" > would appear incongruous surrounded by non-English text.
But so is "note", and you said we won't (and probably cannot) use something else instead. So English is already there. > The problem with translating the node name is that a simple > cross-reference like "note (emacs)Choisir Tampon" would not work if > the manual and node did not exist. First Info would have to know > the preferred language of the manual to find, and find a manual > "emacs-fr.info". Then, if the manual does exist, the person > translating the manual may not have used that translation. If they had > called it "Sélectionner buffer" instead it wouldn't be found. Any manual > being translated would likely reference several others, many of which > will not have existing translations. It's not right for a translator > just to make up their own translations of node names for manuals > which haven't been translated yet. Right. > Although it's not ideal, using cross-reference labels may be the best > solution. It would be a temporary solution if the targetted manual > obtained an English translation later. Once that is the case, the > first manual could be updated with the translated node name, so > "*note Choisir Tampon:(emacs)Select Buffer." becomes > "*note (emacs)Choisir Tampon::", eliminating the English. You mean, the Info reader should do that? It would mean that the Info reader will need to access all its cross-manual links in a node before it can display the node with or without the English node names. > Automatic processing of other translated manuals could make node name > translations easily available. You could imagine an Emacs command used > by a translator that would look up equivalent node and anchor names in > Texinfo documents, if they exist. For example, if a translator translates > a file containing "@ref{Select Buffer,, emacs, The Emacs Editor}" and > supposing that emacs-fr.texi did exist with "@node Choisir Tampon" and > "@anchor{Select Buffer}" immediately after, the software could make > the @node name available to use in translating this @ref. This would > require a translator to have the other translated manuals on their machines, > but you could imagine the same system working on an abbreviated version > of the manuals that solely had @node lines with following @anchor commands. > > This all seems to me to be something to be worked out in software used > by translators as well as possibly processes to be followed by translation > teams. Right.