I have not been following this discussion but I scanned this one and remember receiving orders from private people to section certain tissues and stain them using a variety of staining procedures. The tissues and stains were very similar to the ones I had to submit when I took my practical. I never thought of it until now, I probably aided and abetted a few of these "cheaters" during my career!
Jim _______________________ James E. Staruk HT(ASCP) www.masshistology.com www.nehorselabs.com -----Original Message----- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of O'Donnell, Bill Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 4:17 PM To: rjbu...@yahoo.com; Histonet Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam Rene, Ouch!!! Lighten up! I never accepted or condoned cheating! Of course it is immoral! Only a sociopath would honestly believe otherwise.I never used the words you quoted me as saying. Cheating was one of the two reasons (cost being the other) that you yourself stated was a motive for ASCP dropping the practical. Maybe I wasn't totally clear. What I proposed was that cheating was never at the scale or magnitude that it would be a viable reason for ASCP to dismiss the practical exam. I'm sure it occasionally occured, but I also believe in the basic goodness of human beings, so I'm pretty sure it was miniscule in proportion to those who completed their practicals in dignity and with honesty. My point is that it was not a reasonable justification to end the practical. If you have concrete proof, fine, I'd love to see it. If it is your opinion, fine, everyone has them, but don't confuse them. BTW "moral terpitude" is a redundant phrase, though an interesting choice. (Smile, Rene....no more flames. I didn't deserve it and besides.......it's Friday and I don't have the energy to joust. I'll be better rested on Monday). William (Bill) O'Donnell, HT (ASCP) QIHC Lead Histologist Good Samaritan Hospital 10 East 31st Street Kearney, NE 68847 ________________________________ From: Rene J Buesa [mailto:rjbu...@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 2:37 PM To: Histonet; O'Donnell, Bill Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam Bill: In my time when you accepted somebody else doing YOUR job and YOU being remunerated or accredited for it was called CHEATING and that is a moral turpitude issue, and really a problem, not as you say that was "not much of a problem"!. René J. --- On Fri, 2/20/09, O'Donnell, Bill <billodonn...@catholichealth.net> wrote: From: O'Donnell, Bill <billodonn...@catholichealth.net> Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam To: "Histonet" <Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu> Date: Friday, February 20, 2009, 11:00 AM If, indeed, these were the two primary reasons for eliminating the practical exam, they are weak and lazy reasons. An increase in the fee to apply would cover costs, and, well, was it really that much of a problem of people doing other peoples practicals. I can't imagine it to be out of proportion to what might (I emphasize "might" and add "but likely did not") have occurred sporadically in all the years prior. I won't pass judgement on a single source, but would love to hear from someone who was a part of the decision process that eliminated this practicum. However, if it is true, my estimation of the ASCP has grossly deteriorated. William (Bill) O'Donnell, HT (ASCP) QIHC Lead Histologist Good Samaritan Hospital 10 East 31st Street Kearney, NE 68847 -----Original Message----- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rene J Buesa Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:01 AM To: Victor Tobias; Histonet; Rittman, Barry R Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam There were 2 fundamental reasons why ASCP eliminated the practical part of the examination: 1- they got to the conclusion that there was no way to determine if the person sending the slides was the one who really made them, and 2- it was getting too costly to send the slides to review or to gather the reviewers to qualify the sections, so they decided to eliminate the practical and made the changes we have now (renewal and CEU). René J. --- On Thu, 2/19/09, Rittman, Barry R <barry.r.ritt...@uth.tmc.edu> wrote: From: Rittman, Barry R <barry.r.ritt...@uth.tmc.edu> Subject: RE: [Histonet] Practical Exam To: "Victor Tobias" <vic...@pathology.washington.edu>, "Histonet" <Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu> Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 6:30 PM Victor I cannot believe that you have said this. Although I did not think that the practical examination was the ultimate test of skill , it did at least provide some uniformity. With an extension of the logic that you use it is just as easy to allow the pathologist to certify that the technician is qualified even without a written examination. Without a somewhat standardized practical there is no guarantee that the technician will have any practical knowledge outside their individual laboratory. Didactic without adequate practical knowledge is, as far as I am concerned, useless. What is really needed is a national standardized written and practical test that is administered by NSH. I am not holding my breath that this will happen. Barry ________________________________________ From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Victor Tobias [vic...@pathology.washington.edu] Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 5:03 PM To: Histonet Subject: [Histonet] Practical Exam There has been discussion regarding the removal of the practical exam. To me it has not been removed, but the responsibility has shifted to whomever signs off on the student. In the case of OJT, the pathologist has verified that this student can cut and stain. Of course what is acceptable to one pathologist may not be to another. Do they get tested in the art of troubleshooting...... As far as the schools go, they shouldn't be graduating anyone that can't cut, stain and troubleshoot. So I don't really see a problem with the absence of the practical. It is Friday somewhere. Victor -- Victor Tobias Clinical Applications Analyst University of Washington Medical Center Dept of Pathology Room BB220 1959 NE Pacific Seattle, WA 98195 vic...@pathology.washington.edu 206-598-2792 206-598-7659 Fax ================================================= Privileged, confidential or patient identifiable information may be contained in this message. This information is meant only for the use of the intended recipients. If you are not the intended recipient, or if the message has been addressed to you in error, do not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute, disseminate or otherwise use this transmission. 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