can only agree here... (sorry for going a bit OT now)
you can give admins options to setup ie the number of reinforcements/respawns per player/team, maplists, timelimits and stuff alike... but when it comes to weapon damage, firing rate, additional scopes, grenade launchers and stuff alike then this kind of thing should stay the same, no matter on which server you login to start a match.
The main reason for this is that not many will blame the server admin at all... they will only blame him/her IF they already knew the original version of the mod... The example of new folks playing your mod for the first time rings a lot of bells here... we had many folks that started to blame our development team for specific things they disliked on this or that server and blamed us for developing a big pile of sh..t. Actually these things were mutators (UT stuff) that some folks added to their servers and that were developed to change specific parts about our mod. These mutators come pretty close to what is possible for admins on HL. Sure not 100% the same but 'adjusting' the damage values, adding another scoreboard and stuff alike is the same and can be a big pain in the a... so to speak.
What makes a player wanting to play a specific mod? It is most times the first impression they got while playing it for the first time. But if this first impression is not their kind of thing then they will never touch it again most times. And now think about your hard work (your mod) edited in a way that you do not want it to be... what a nice first impression can result of this.
Easy example... realistic behaviour is geared towards a specific group of players. Sure, some more action orientated folks will like your weapons or some other parts of your mod and then they will maybe setup a server that plays your stuff in a highly unrealistic pure action fun style... maybe cool, but that was not the way the mod planned to end up. And you should always show respect if people invest their free and spare time in developing a mod the way they like. Suggestions welcome, but it is their toy, not yours. So, adding nice additions is most times ok, but changing basics is not.
So, imo, hard code whatever you want to hard code and leave stuff editable only if you want them to change it.
-- Norbert Bogenrieder aka Beppo Lead Programmer and Project Lead [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sentry Studios - Infiltration [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sentrystudios.net http://infiltration.sentrystudios.net
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Rodriguez" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com> Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Re: [OT] [OT] "Safe way" of setting weapon damages?
On Thu, Feb 10, 2005 at 02:17:55PM -0500, Lance Vorgin wrote:
In every modified server I've been on (too many to count) it's the server that's rightfully been blamed for the modifications to the mod and not the mod or mod authors themselves. There's no way to stop admins from changing pretty much anything about your mod's server and, as stated, it's not an option to make anything important client side (just play AVP2 for an example). In fact by trying to prevent people from modifying your mod, you attract people excited by the challenge [so to speak]. It's a bad idea not only because of the time it wastes, but because it actually hurts the mod: if more people play on servers with modified damage, then that's what people want to play. There will always be classic servers as well, so why would you not want to give people the opportunity to improve your mod?
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I may be coming in on the middle of this discussion, but I believe I have a good answer to this question.
When someone plays your game for the first time online, what will happen if they see people flying around and swinging off the walls, and if a pocket knife kills with one shot to the foot and the sniper rifle hits for 1 hp? I really don't trust server admins with knowing how to make a fun game. As a game designer, I would prefer that gameplay be consistent across all public servers so that players can hop from server to server without having to constantly adjust their playing style to whichever server they happen to be on. Otherwise, it becomes like HLDM or Unreal, or like how TFC is increasinly becoming: you can't seem to find a straight game anymore without all those hooks and mods and hookmods and super-awesome plugins that people love to install. CS on the other hand is fairly consistent across the board, and it's easy to find a server that fits your tastes.
Now, that's not to say that people shouldn't be allowed to modify how the game plays at all. In fact, just as you say, total restriction of any type of modification will make people simply want to do it more. On the contrary, it is good to allow administrators to change the settings on their own server to customize the style of play they like, and then the popularity of their servers will dictate whether or not that server will survive. However, giving the admin too much freedom causes a pain in the neck of players who want a consistent way of playing the game. It's the players I'm thinking about here.
In turn, when you make the game you should be especially in tune with what people want. If every server is hacking it up to put more damage in, then obviously people think your game would be more fun with more damage, so a damage hike is in order. Not listening to your players (who make your mod popular) is as dangerous as giving too much power to the admins.
-- Jorge "Vino" Rodriguez
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