James, there's no reason for me to optimize my server for slower connections. The average ping on my server is around 40ms. Anyone with a ping consistently higher than 250ms usually gets the boot.
My server settings are set inline to get optimal performance for broadband players (sv_maxrate at 20000, sv_minrate at 2000 which doesn't seem to work) and being set at a tickrate at 66 (not gonna post all my settings here, but thx Whisper for the guide and leg work). Right now my sv_maxunlag is set for 0.5, which is CAL standard (I get a significant amount of league players). If I am missing something with THAT setting, by all means, enlighten us. But the fact of the matter is, any player coming into MY server and most everybody else's server, with a cl_cmdrate lower than default, is creating a condition to where they have an unfair advantage over other players. Period. Throw figures and calculations at me all ya want, that doesn't change what I see happening when a player logs into my server with the express purpose of rate hacking. And it's obviously not an isolated incident - otherwise there wouldn't be such a debate about it, now would there? - K2 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Tucker Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 9:21 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] cl_cmdrate.... Now look, you clearly haven't done your homework, and this is why I get so goddamn riled over this issue, which people eventually come to agree over, then a couple of months later, the same stupid suggestion is made. 30 is ONLY the default for broadband settings in Steam. You clearly DON'T as I said in my last mail, have any experience optimising slower links or servers for clients with slower links. If you think cl_cmdrate < 30 is a problem - you haven't tested in a sandboxed environment. -I HAVE. IT WORKS FINE. I DID POST A TEST SERVER ADDRESS AS PROOF, WHICH YOU FAILED TO CHECK. I know I was rude, but there is a reason, -the community never bloody listens-. It's not targeted at any particular individual, but the NOTION that your suggestions are workable. Before you know it, half the CS:S community are crying out for something that will only damage the gameplay of nearly half the community. Talk about self harm. You may want to have _some_ restriction put on cl_cmdrate, however, above 30 IS NOT IT. (Note, there is one, which I think also hasn't been noticed, it's 10). Once again, as I said in my previous mail, settings of cl_cmdrate 12 SHOULD NOT CREATE LAG. If they do, your server or client or both are malconfigured. This is a fact, please figure this one out before you respond with the same thing again, as I've seen it enough times already. Cl_interpolate 0 does not help clients win, again, unless your server is malconfigured. The bug that allows for cl_interpolate 0 and cl_interp still to delay _may_ contribute to some kills, however we have proven that if someone can react so accurately to clear space, accurately with a Xms delay, they can react just as well seeing in the first place. In short, it's not really an advantage, people just think it is, and whinge. In case you've never noticed, the only players that whinge are players that are loosing at the time, and this accounts for most of the CS:S community. The game isn't broken, the player isn't playing properly. Yes, CS:S is the kind of game where you die very very quickly if you're not on good form, and YES it is frustrating, especially for most kids. This IS the true source of most of the community complaints, the rest are from malconfigurations. Now please, if you want to suggest some restrictions or major changes to the game's netcode, would you please be so kind as to research ALL areas of it's use first. Not just focus on one server and one sub-community of settings. With regard to cl_updaterate and cl_cmdrate interacting with sv_minupdaterate: You are correct that sv_minupdaterate does not affect cl_cmdrate, however it is also the case that cl_cmdrate has a minimum setting of 10. If sv_maxunlag is set to 1, you can miss over 100 packets before the server refuses to unlag. If are observing a player with these settings, then a cl_interp 0.1 will allow 10 losses prior to a warp, if you have cl_interp 0.05 it's only 5. The round trip time between you and the server can also affect this, as mismatched rates will not allow for the significant turn around time of 100ms + enemy ping + server delay + your ping + your interp. Once again, there are server settings required to alleviate the problem, along with reasonable client settings. Just out of interest, with those same players on have you tried "revert all" on both the client and the server? Finally, a note about some wireless players ("the common warp" / "warp factor nine") - I have noticed that there are an increasing number of wireless users who have been encouraged to turn their rates down to help warping issues. These players seem to have no understanding of the reason behind their periodic choke+/loss issues. FYI - wireless (802.11(a/b/g)) does not provide a stable continual packet stream - all suggestions to the contrary are false. As a consiquence of this, wireless users, depending on their configuration, frame sizes and TDMA policy will receive lag occasionally. This is a problem BELOW the IP layer, and is NOT solvable by client or server settings. Wireless clients should be encouraged to go get wires. N.B. This does not apply to long range microwave links (necessarily), however these links have typically higher latency than copper anyway, and aren't used too much in this industry. > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of K2 > Sent: 21 November 2005 18:05 > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: RE: [hlds] cl_cmdrate.... > > Alright, lemme clear up any mis-understanding. What would be ideal is > if certain cvars, such as cl_cmdrate, were limited to limited range of > settings. That range being 30 (default) up to 100 would be ideal. > Going lower than 30 for cl_cmdrate is where we start to have issues. > > For a cvar like cl_interpolate, that's something in my opinion that > should be locked in at 1. > > Sorry for any confusion there. > > - K2 > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 7:08 AM > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: RE: [hlds] cl_cmdrate.... > > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] This is what got me > started: > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of K2 > > Sent: Sun 11/20/2005 9:06 PM > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > Subject: RE: [hlds] cl_cmdrate.... > > > > > > I have also recently emailed Alfred about a few things, and did > > mention certain cvars (cl_cmdrate was one of 'em) that at > this point > > need to be locked down or at the very least under the realm of > > sv_cheats. If enough admins voice their concerns, maybe > something will > > be > done about it. > > > > - K2 > > > I don't want Alfred thinking you speak for me on this one. > As a player and as an admin. > > --Ozz > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > > Ozz, please... Read the entire thread before posting. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 1:24 AM > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > Subject: RE: [hlds] cl_cmdrate.... > > > > -- > > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] why should > cl_cmdrate > > be considered a cheat cvar or locked down????? As a player > I run at an > > 85 cmdrate OR ELSE I GET CHOKE CONSTANTLY. Why the hell do > you want to > > 'fix' a client side rate setting anyway?? Just because a server is > > hooked up to a xx MB/s line does not mean the client is as > > fortunate!!! > > > > Add to that, I need to run a cl_updaterate of 15 for servers I ping > > over 50 for, whereas I can run this setting at 100 or even 200 on > > low-ping > servers. > > > > > > Instead of suggesting locking this or locking that or > messing up this > > rate value etc, why don't you find a config that works and > on top of > > that stop inducing choke and loss with low rate settings on the > > server. All you are doing is ruining a game experience by > making the > > game 'unfun' with skippy erratic response and it just turns > people off. > > > > > > Until then, leave the client settings alone. We don't appreciate it. > > > > --Ozz > > > > p.s. yes I run servers too. > > > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > > > > Actually, 20 is too low for cl_cmdrate - 30 is the > default setting > > > for > > that. > > > I agree that having a usable range for that cvar is a > better option. > > > Some cvars however, like cl_interpolate, need to be > locked down to 1. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Rick Payton > > > Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 9:03 PM > > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > Subject: RE: [hlds] cl_cmdrate.... > > > > > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > > -- > > > How about locking it down to a specific range? Like 20 to > 100 - no > > > higher, and definately no lower? It's a good command to leave > > > adjustable, as I regularly adjust mine depending on the server I > > > play > on. > > > > > > Make to where if someone puts in a value between 0-19, it > defaults > > > to > 20. > > > > > > Rick Payton, IT Support > > > Morikawa & Associates > > > (808) 572-1745 > > > http://www.mai-hawaii.com/ > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of K2 > > > Sent: Sun 11/20/2005 9:06 PM > > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > Subject: RE: [hlds] cl_cmdrate.... > > > > > > > > > I have also recently emailed Alfred about a few things, and did > > > mention certain cvars (cl_cmdrate was one of 'em) that at > this point > > > need to be locked down or at the very least under the realm of > > > sv_cheats. If enough admins voice their concerns, maybe something > > > will be > > done about it. > > > > > > - K2 > > > -- > > > [ winmail.dat of type application/ms-tnef deleted ] > > > -- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > archives, please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > archives, please > > > visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the > list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the > list archives, > > please > > visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > -- > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
