This is a tough issue, on both sides. Both Adam and Alfred make good points, in defense of Valve - however, it would be interesting to hear from the developers of such mods as Mani as to why they chose not to use the documented SDK in the development of some features within their applications. It's clear to me, for example, that the author of the Mani mod has his wits about him - so simply attributing his design decisions to laziness or bad practice might be a bit facile. Is there something he needed to do that forced him to use hard-coded offsets? Do the features he developed pre-date the implementation of better support in a subsequent SDK update?
One thing I completely agree with is that there is a very important, if unconscious, symbiotic relationship between Valve and the developers of tools such as Mani. The wide acceptance and use of these tools speaks to a need in the gaming community that is not fulfilled by Valve directly. This is not a criticism, Valve does what they do quite well. But for thousands of players, Mani Mod makes the game more enjoyable and helps control unwelcome behaviour. Nevertheless, a bit of coordination with major admin-mod developers (of which there are probably very few) leading up to the release of an update might go a ways to making the upgrade transition smoother. To the credit of admin-mod developers like Mani, they are very quick to test and adjust to problems. I am curious - to what extent and how do most admins go about testing Valve updates before turning them up on their "production" server(s)? Frazer -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edward Luna Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 10:07 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released Agreed. -----Original Message----- From: [DumB]TeXas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 12:27 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released I don't think you have read what I said though Adam, I haven't said they have any legal obligations and I haven't said that _they_ should make sure things works with their updates. What I suggested was that they do more of an effort to help the developers to debug their own plugins before updates go official - by for an example providing a test environment such as an update they can apply a few days before the release. This way the _developers of the 3rd party plugins_ can do their job and get it working with the new updates. This should only mean extending the time before a new update by a few days which doesn't matter when it comes to cosmetic updates such as this one. If anything, this goes under a moral obligation, to help all the people out there putting time, money and effort into running their games on servers and developing 3rd party plugins that makes their games playable - such as proper admin tools. TeX. :) -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam Sando Sent: 25. august 2006 05:38 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released Just remember Tex, Valve have no legal or moral obligations to provide support or compatibility with any 3rd party plugins not written by Valve. Valve try to make their updates as flawless as possible, however they are not able to make sure that every infinite combination of plugins work together. Not unless you want 1 update per year perhaps? ;) Regards, Adam. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [DumB]TeXas Sent: Friday, 25 August 2006 1:03 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released Some of the metamod plugis appears not to be working - and my little rant there still stands regardless. Not that anyone cares about it. I just don't think I am the only one that is a 'tad' sick of updates breaking everything from a to z - and tbh there could be more effort to prevent it than there is today. Oh well... Server with v1.2 beta and the new gametypes.txt, on a windows 2003 server machine seems to work like a charm though. Cheers! :) -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Albiniak Sent: 25. august 2006 04:50 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Counter-Strike: Source update released link- please let me know if your server stays up without a crash for more than 2 rounds or 60 minutes. ours isn't, even without mani. :( On 8/24/06, Link Pankratz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Just as an addendum to my last post, the slay command *does* work with > the new gametypes.txt but I have *not* tested everything else. I have > also not experienced the server dying with the player. > > Link > > [DumB]TeXas wrote: > > Well 1.1.0zi does 'work', as in; it will start and everything will appear to > > be working - admin menu works and most admin commands (not slay) > > works from > > what I could see. However, the second a player dies the server dies > > with it. > > So in other words, its not exactly of much use... :P > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > -- Matt Albiniak [EMAIL PROTECTED] _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. 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