There is no other reasonable explanation for the TF2 players counts dropping so much now especially at the start of summer vacation. There is no new Call of Duty or Battlefield game.
Let's see what last year looked like. http://www.steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&jstime=1&appid=440&from=1357027200000&to=1370415600000 Compared to this year. http://www.steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&jstime=1&appid=440&from=1388563200000&to=End+Time The number of excuses you all have left is shrinking. On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Phillip Vector <t...@mostdeadlygame.com> wrote: > Correlation does not imply causation. > > Player counts being lower does not mean that it's because of the quickplay > decision. > > >I don't know how many times I need to keep citing this. > > Neither do I. Can you please stop because it's not necessarily a relevant > fact. > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 3:26 PM, Robert Paulson <thepauls...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Regardless of the reason Valve has for essentially removing community >> servers from quickplay, this change has done more harm than good. >> >> I don't know how many times I need to keep citing this. How many more >> players does TF2 need to lose before someone at Valve wakes up? It is >> already summer time and player counts are lower than ever. >> >> >> http://www.steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&jstime=1&appid=440&from=1388563200000&to=End+Time >> >> The longer this policy remains the more permanent damage you are doing to >> communities people have spent years building up. >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Alexander Corn <mc...@doctormckay.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Source radio is obviously not the only thing that it would break. What's >>> minor to you may not be minor to others. >>> >>> Plenty of TF2 trade servers have a !bp command which opens a player's >>> backpack (in an online backpack viewer) in the MOTD panel. Without >>> JavaScript, hovering over an item won't show a tooltip with its details. >>> Sure, this could be done in CSS exclusively, but nobody does that because >>> having JavaScript enabled is basically a given in modern web development. >>> >>> I'd rather have to work harder to populate my Quickplay servers than >>> have to deal with a completely useless MOTD browser. As others have said, >>> the HTML MOTD disable option is there for a reason. >>> >>> Additionally, HTML MOTDs aren't even displayed for Quickplay >>> connections. I really don't understand why it's even an issue anymore. It's >>> already been crippled considerably. >>> >>> >>> Dr. McKay >>> www.doctormckay.com >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 1:50 PM, E. Olsen <ceo.eol...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I agree that disabling javascript/flash/html5 is less than an ideal >>>> solution, but for the very minor things it would disable (source radio, >>>> etc.), if it would allow Valve to return to a level playing field it would >>>> be a very small sacrifice. I'm sure if Valve came to all of us and said >>>> "we'll enable all servers by default, but we need to remove those elements >>>> from the web browser to do so" we would all jump at that chance. I honestly >>>> believe as long as operators have the ability to run those kinds of ads it >>>> will be abused by the blackhat folks to the point that they ruin it for the >>>> rest of us. >>>> >>>> I fully agree that mass punishment is/was a seriously ham-fisted >>>> approach to dealing with the issues, and was the wrong (and frankly, >>>> unethical) way to treat all server operators. >>>> >>>> I like your ideas for better informing the players regarding quickplay >>>> options, but as with any system of this kind, I think it should start with >>>> "maximum diversity" fully enabled by default, and allow the players to opt >>>> out, instead of opting in. Only then will it be a truly level playing field >>>> for all servers. >>>> >>>> On a side note, I would also like to know why the "server scoring" >>>> system (apparently) didn't work, and why it wasn't more effectively used to >>>> weed out all the bad apples in the first place. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Alexander Corn <mc...@doctormckay.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> Further - if Valve wanted to get rid of those horrendous MOTD ads (and >>>>> I wish to hell they would), they could easily do it by disabling >>>>> flash/javascript/html5 from functioning in the in-game web browser (which >>>>> would have probably fixed the problem almost entirely). >>>>> >>>>> This is still not an ideal solution. Plenty of community servers rely >>>>> on the MOTD and features such as JavaScript and Flash (mostly for audio >>>>> streams, but many are switching to HTML5 audio elements) for their custom >>>>> features. Removing those features is still removing features that have >>>>> existed for a very long time due to the abusive tendencies of a few. >>>>> >>>>> Those that are abusive should be dealt with. There is no reason why >>>>> everyone should suffer in order to punish a few. It goes back to grade >>>>> school gym class. Weren't you pissed when the teacher/coach made everyone >>>>> run laps or whatever because 3-4 kids wouldn't stop talking? That's how >>>>> we're being treated now. >>>>> >>>>> I could live with the default Valve-only option if it were more >>>>> obvious how to switch it. When the player first starts up TF2, they're >>>>> shown popups directing them to the store, showing them how the backpack >>>>> works, etc. Ironically, these popups really only cover the item system, >>>>> which most can agree comes second to actual gameplay. There's no coaching >>>>> regarding how to actually join a game. >>>>> >>>>> Display a balloon that points to the Quickplay button and says >>>>> something like, "Click here to be quickly matched into a game based on >>>>> gamemode" and one that points to the servers button and says something >>>>> like, "Click here to fine-tune your desired game settings". >>>>> >>>>> Also show a balloon in the Quickplay dialog that points to the >>>>> settings button (which isn't exactly immediately apparent as being >>>>> clickable) and also a dialog that explains the difference between official >>>>> and community servers. >>>>> >>>>> "Official servers offer an unmodified and uncustomized experience." >>>>> >>>>> "Community servers typically offer better moderation, some minor >>>>> gameplay modifications, and a greater sense of community." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dr. McKay >>>>> www.doctormckay.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 5:45 PM, E. Olsen <ceo.eol...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Perhaps it's time to examine the possibility that Valve is very >>>>>>> purposefully forcing community run servers into the minority because >>>>>>> they're straight tired of having to play code-counter-code withe people >>>>>>> like the fuckjobs who programmed plugins to force ads down players >>>>>>> throats >>>>>>> and other like-minded stains. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I guess I would consider that a valid argument if it wasn't Valve who >>>>>> had enabled the "ad farms" in the first place. Those things were never a >>>>>> problem before quickplay came along, because those kinds of servers would >>>>>> never get favorited to see a return visitor. The Pinion-supported folks >>>>>> were only enabled by quickplay, plain and simple - which is why when >>>>>> Pinion >>>>>> came on the scene shortly after quickplay came along, you had these guys >>>>>> go >>>>>> from a dozen or so servers to 100+ just to farm ad impressions. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Further - if Valve wanted to get rid of those horrendous MOTD ads >>>>>> (and I wish to hell they would), they could easily do it by disabling >>>>>> flash/javascript/html5 from functioning in the in-game web browser (which >>>>>> would have probably fixed the problem almost entirely). If they did that, >>>>>> and just quietly dropped any of the "premium" servers from quickplay, >>>>>> they >>>>>> would have knocked out all but the most determined black-hat folks, and >>>>>> those can always be dealt with. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 5:14 PM, Eli Witt <eliw...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Replied to the last message, I'll post this here too. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Well, we know from experience just how good Valve is at keeping a >>>>>>> lid on things (case in point HL3) so I doubt they're going to >>>>>>> acknowledge >>>>>>> this in any way unless they see fit to, not because we're disgruntled >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> asking for information. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And for what it's worth, everyone (who's opinion on this list is >>>>>>> worth a damn) has thrown out the point that "we're the ones providing >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> servers for Valve, we're the ones who give their players a place to play >>>>>>> etc etc" - but what I think is going unnoticed here is the fact that >>>>>>> Valve >>>>>>> is obviously taking steps (and increasingly larger ones) to nullify that >>>>>>> argument in it's entirety. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Perhaps it's time to examine the possibility that Valve is very >>>>>>> purposefully forcing community run servers into the minority because >>>>>>> they're straight tired of having to play code-counter-code withe people >>>>>>> like the fuckjobs who programmed plugins to force ads down players >>>>>>> throats >>>>>>> and other like-minded stains. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We've got the binaries on both ends, and Valve knows this. It's >>>>>>> virtually impossible to stop people from being fuckjobs with access to >>>>>>> both >>>>>>> binaries, so let [Valve] just diminish the footprint the fuckjobs get >>>>>>> access by about 90% by forcing people into the servers we can afford to >>>>>>> run >>>>>>> now that we've monetized TF2. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If I was Valve and I made this decision, I wouldn't give a piss >>>>>>> whether people who run servers are upset by this or threaten to pull >>>>>>> their >>>>>>> servers offline because of this decision, because that's the direction I >>>>>>> wanted to force you in anyway. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just a thought. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Robert Paulson < >>>>>>> thepauls...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Making a new thread because replies are being blocked with "Message >>>>>>>> body is too big: 41090 bytes with a limit of 40 KB". >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Complaints here have historically gone ignored but it doesn't mean >>>>>>>> it is a bad idea to keep the issue in the spotlight here as well. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Just make sure you also contact Valve directly. >>>>>>>> http://valvesoftware.com/email.php >>>>>>>> Some people say Fletcher is in charge of TF2 now so email him too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We're really past the point in asking Valve for an "answer". The >>>>>>>> answer is probably the same as before: a handful of servers ruined the >>>>>>>> experience for a few new players and some lazy players who couldn't be >>>>>>>> bothered to type valve in the tags. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So they threw in some useless features like quickpick and released >>>>>>>> server migrations at the same time to shut you up before you realize >>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>> community was also going to get screwed so there would be no huge >>>>>>>> public >>>>>>>> outrage. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What needs to be done now is to get someone at Valve to realize >>>>>>>> that this change did more harm than good and there is evidence to >>>>>>>> prove it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Any other argument we bring up they will consider it biased because >>>>>>>> we host servers and somehow that means we don't care about players. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ever since the change, global TF2 player counts have steadily been >>>>>>>> dropping. Peaks have dipped from 82k to 71k, a 15% loss. And summer >>>>>>>> vacation has already started as you can see from the weekday player >>>>>>>> counts. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&jstime=1&appid=440&from=1388563200000&to=End+Time >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>> please visit: >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>> please visit: >>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >
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