Robert, I find that interesting about larger groups. As for shutting down the servers, it wouldn't become obvious to players, however it would become obvious to Valve when they suddenly noticed a huge drop in the number of servers available in the server browser. They surely keep some form of automated stats on this.
Even if we believe Valve have made a terrible decision, as long as we aren't abusive towards them, we can express our anger in more constructive ways. We kind of silently waited for a year. A little bubbling up on the mailing list does not compare to a consistent drive to make people aware of the issue. - Boycotting the Mann Co store. How can any of us possibly aim to achieve that? What could would it do either? - Raise the issue outside of Valve controlled properties. I'm more than happy to make a little site that would neatly convey our arguments better than the steam group description. I'll get to work on it tomorrow. I'm in discussion with someone who could possibly make a video about it too. Other possible actions I have thought of is as someone else said above, raising it with Kritzkast. Also seeing if we could get in touch with popular TF2 youtubers like Jerma and Star? I feel we need far more in the group for it to be worth their time, let alone how would we contact them? - Keep talking on the forums? I am sure it is easier for a dev to ignore the forums entirely, do they even use the forums? As for SPUF, they are trying to transition everyone away from it. I have tried numerous times to make an account and get stuck in a moderator queue. On 10 February 2015 at 23:58, Robert Paulson <thepauls...@gmail.com> wrote: > Your screenshot proves yourself wrong. Here is an example of what > steamcommunity looked like before. > > http://web.archive.org/web/20110202224111/https://steamcommunity.com/ > > There is a direct link to the list of groups here and now it is replaced > by other junk. I don't see how curators are related to groups. They don't > even look the same. And the reason why those beta features are not using > hubs is because they are part of the steam client and not actually an > individual download unlike Steam for linux. Those steam groups are large > because they were accompanied by announcements and huge incentives to join > from Steam store activities, not because everyone is using groups. > > Larger groups have completely been blocked from inviting people outside > their friend list. You can see from their history (there used to be a link > to that too) that no one has been invited for days, and when you try to > invite someone it silently fails. If you have not run into this issue yet, > your group is probably not large enough. > > Shutting down all community servers is not likely to work. Community > players became a minority due to an entire year of being cut off from new > players. I don't believe we are being rude about this either. Are we really > supposed to pretend that Valve hasn't made a terrible decision and > sugarcoat our words as if this wasn't a serious problem? Are we not already > being patient enough after waiting an entire year? If Valve needs proof > that this was a bad decision, all they have to do is open their eyes. The > stats are already out there. > > These solutions are much more likely to work: > > - Boycott the Mann Co store. > - Raise the issue outside of Valve controlled properties like Steam groups > so they can't just kill it by silently blocking your ability to gain > members like they have been doing. > - Keep talking about here where we know the devs do not easily ignore like > the forums. Even if they are just filtering it out at their personal inbox, > at least we can warn others about getting too involved hosting Valve games. > > If you want to keep the discussion civil, I suggest you start with > yourself as you seem to be far more inflammatory than anyone else here. > > On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 2:58 PM, Daniel Barreiro < > smelly.feet.you.h...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> http://i.imgur.com/ZPiMPA2.png >> >> I wouldn't consider this "phased out" especially since they use community >> groups whenever a new beta feature launches >> http://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamuniverse >> http://steamcommunity.com/groups/steammusic >> http://steamcommunity.com/groups/SteamClientBeta >> http://steamcommunity.com/groups/familysharing >> http://steamcommunity.com/groups/steambroadcasting >> >> You get the picture. >> Let's look at the Steam beta features that used the "game hubs" >> http://steamcommunity.com/app/221410 >> >> Don't forget the group integration of one of a very massive feature of >> the storefront. >> http://store.steampowered.com/curators/ >> >> Also in terms of inviting, I don't want to revive this argument but they >> didn't block any groups from sending invites. They limited how many invites >> you could send in a period of time to people who aren't your friend. You >> can invite as many people as you want if they're on your friends list. >> >> >> >> On the topic of servers, being negative about it and saying "Valve left >> us to rot" is not a good way to make anything change. I'm not saying I >> condone the way they handled this, but it is what it is. Have you ever >> considered the fact that they may not know what to do? When quickplay was a >> mess, a ton of clients complained so Valve put "temporary" restrictions in. >> The complaints from the players stopped and now a new player wont get >> turned away by a bad server. If you think about it from a business >> standpoint, what's worse. Forty pissed off server owners or four thousand >> lost customers due to a bad server? >> Valve is a business, they don't technically owe you anything. You weren't >> held at gunpoint being told "host our servers or else." >> I need to note that I'm not saying that you didn't have an impact on TF, >> as honestly you did in some way. The RIGHT thing to do would be to at least >> have some form of civilized discussion and statement on the current >> situation from Valve. They are no way obliged to do this, but you have >> provided them a service and it would be reasonable for them to give a >> response. >> Think about it from their standpoint. Let's think about the different >> responses: >> >> "We are leaving it as is the end." >> This would result in a lot of bitching and people would potentially stop >> hosting their servers. >> >> "We are reverting it to how it was" >> You know how this would end >> >> "We implemented X feature to make it so community servers can get better >> representation in quickplay" >> WAH VALVE THIS ISN'T FAIR! I WANT TO USE X SETTING BUT THE QUICKPLAY >> RULES SAY I CAN'T. THIS IS UNFAIR IT'S NOT GAME CHANGING. OTHER SERVERS ARE >> GETTING AWAY WITH IT. THERE ARE TOO MANY VALVE SERVERS TAKING MY TRAFFIC" >> >> >> >> If you want it to change stop *talking *about shutting down your servers >> so Valve loses money and *actually do it*. >> >> *Until you actually do it it's just a baseless threat said time over >> time.* >> *If community servers are so important, shut down your servers until >> there's a change.* >> >> *Want a fun experiment? Organize a big shutdown for a week or two with >> other huge clans. See what it does. Take a look at the stats and see how >> many people stop playing TF2 due to the community servers being gone for a >> week or two. Then if it actually makes an impact, show it to Valve and say >> you'll do it forever unless changes are made. Otherwise stop bitching about >> how you're getting no traffic.* >> >> *Want another experiment? Try to kindly ask them to make the community >> servers a bit more obvious in the quickplay menu. Keep it civil and don't >> say "fuck valve they don't care about us," because that shows how much you >> guys really care about the game. When it turns into a shitfest think about >> it and wonder why Valve wouldn't put the people in the shitfest back in >> power over parts of the TF2 community * >> >> >> On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 3:55 PM, Tim Anderson <twjander...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Quickplay is not as much to ask for as attachments because attachments >>> are in direct conflict with their business model. TF2 did just fine for 8 >>> years without this change. >>> >>> Steam groups are not a good way to grab the TF team's attention though >>> because they are being hidden to rot away just like TF2 community servers. >>> They removed the link to groups on steamcommunity.com when they started >>> to phase in "game hubs" and blocked the large groups from inviting people >>> about 2 years ago. >>> >>> Please don't give up. At the very least we can warning everyone else >>> that they should not put too much effort into hosting servers for Valve >>> until we start seeing some concessions. >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 7:20 PM, Asher Baker <asher...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 2:21 AM, Ahmed Kandeel < >>>> astrida...@googlemail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> *Okay guys, I enacted on my idea and would like some support. I've >>>>> created a steam group <http://steamcommunity.com/groups/fixquickplay> (Fix >>>>> Quickplay Now!) as a form of petition against the changes to the Quickplay >>>>> system.* >>>> >>>> >>>> Because the last time this was done >>>> <http://steamcommunity.com/groups/SaveTF2AttachmentsPetition/> it >>>> worked out great... >>>> >>>> ~~~~~ >>>> "Their heads are green, and their hands are blue, >>>> And they went to sea in a Sieve." - Edward Lear >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>> please visit: >>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >
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