Re: [hlds] Optional TF2 update released

[Gamers Exile]

Prime example Diablo 3's auction house. Blizzard shut it down due to bots farming and selling items. Now all higher level items are only tradeable ‎between players that were there when the item dropped for a set period of time, other items are simply account bound on drop and that's that. ‎I'm sure there were other options that could have worked but ultimately we are at the mercy of developers. -GE Sent Via Pigeon From: Alexander Corn Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2015 3:29 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Reply To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Optional TF2 update released You know what else would prevent fraud? Turning off trading entirely. That doesn't mean that it would be a good idea. On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 3:11 PM, Ross Bemrose <rbemr...@gmail.com> wrote: Do you have some sort of data that shows the 30-day untradability for Steam Gifts and 7-day untradability for store-bought/market-bought items aren't preventing fraud? That's what those restrictions were put into place for.  If they are managing to lower the fraud rate through those particular channels, then Valve wasn't wrong about them and they are working as intended. On 7/5/2015 2:58 PM, Alexander Corn wrote: Paid mods are the only thing in recent memory that I can think of with Valve admitting they made a mistake. There are plenty of other negative changes that I can think of which are still alive and kicking (30-day untradability for Steam Gifts, 7-day untradability for store-bought/market-bought items, etc). As far as I can tell, Valve only admits they're wrong when they start to receive a large volume of negative emails. If they want to bring community servers back to equal footing on the condition that nobody can run ads anymore, then so be it. I just think that they're treating a symptom and not the actual problem. The actual problem is that (apparently) players aren't able to easily find desirable servers. But is "desirable" really well defined? Is a server with a skippable ad okay? Is a server with a 5-second ad okay? 10 seconds? Is a server with round-end donor immunity okay? Desirability is really subjective. Personally, even as a non-server-op I think that Valve servers are completely undesirable for various reasons, including performance, skill level, and lack of moderation. I think that Quickplay at its core is a flawed concept, but I'd be fine with them restoring all servers to Quickplay by default with the current Quickplay rules. The problem is that Valve is too lazy to moderate Quickplay at all. They'd rather cripple Quickplay to a point where it's unprofitable to put "undesirable" servers into its pool. Which also affects every other community server at the same time. On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 2:49 PM, E. Olsen <ceo.eol...@gmail.com> wrote: Are we just ignoring the fact that for a long time, Pinion hosted many of the CS:GO official matchmaking servers, which had terrible performance issues (like Valve servers now!) *and* ran MOTD ads? It's okay for Valve, a multi-billion-dollar corporation to do it, but not average Joe trying to make some money back on what already isn't a negligible expense? The fact that valve did it sure as hell doesn't mean it was a good idea. I'm sure they would be the first to admit they're not infallible, and have made errors in judgement. Ads really aren't a problem anymore in TF2 and if players still have that delusion, then there's really nothing that can be done about it. Of course there is. When there is a perception problem, you can take a proactive stance to fix what is causing that perception problem.  Like it or not, servers running those ads have caused a perception problem.  At any rate, this is the same argument that has gone in circles for two years, and probably contributes to why Valve won't lift a finger to help communities still passionate about the game. The people who want the right to monetize a player connection with an ad impression will always scream at the top of their lungs that they should be allowed to do anything they want, and we've already seen Valve response to that. At any rate, I think the more prudent course is to continue to try to change Valve's mind directly. If people think all the cynicism and insults hurled Valve's way will change things, then by all means - keep in keeping on. On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 2:34 PM, Saint K. <sai...@specialattack.net> wrote: Amen.   From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Matthias "InstantMuffin" Kollek Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2015 8:31 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Optional TF2 update released   I don't know if the last paragraph is meant sarcastically, but ads are a huge problem on community servers. Feel free to write a script that connects to all tf2 servers and keep the speakers on. Yes, motds can be turned off client-side. But please don't expect the average joe to be able to do anything else other than maybe setting his display resolution. In the good old days younger people would just gather a few friends, create a clan and throw together part of their allowance to rent a gameserver. Later on they would actually survive on donations. Hosting was driven by passion. Nowadays every person that can barely even write and their mother wants to run a server and pay nothing for it. And use ads and whatnot to earn money from the servers. Sorry, it never worked that way. Solution is fairly simple. Have a strict report system to remove servers from the list. Yes, for gods sake, it won't remove every single shit server there is, but it's a decent first step. Evaluate, and go from there. It's not like Valve wouldn't spit in server-ops' faces. The issue is they don't pick the right ones. Luckily, I can't say much about the pinion-official-server debate, we were quite unaffected in the EU. I must say however, the pinion people on spuf get a lot of respect from me. A lot of people shit on them for the right reasons, and they keep it together. I couldn't do that, god only knows. On 05.07.2015 19:59, Alexander Corn wrote: Are we just ignoring the fact that for a long time, Pinion hosted many of the CS:GO official matchmaking servers, which had terrible performance issues (like Valve servers now!) *and* ran MOTD ads? It's okay for Valve, a multi-billion-dollar corporation to do it, but not average Joe trying to make some money back on what already isn't a negligible expense? But I digress. Ads really aren't a problem anymore in TF2 and if players still have that delusion, then there's really nothing that can be done about it. Best to just flip the switch back to all servers by default (and reset Valve's quickplay scores, they're very artificially inflated now).   On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 10:29 AM, E. Olsen <ceo.eol...@gmail.com> wrote: Agreed.   Donation-driven communities were how servers were operated for years (and how many still do). To suggest that there has been some kind of fundamental shift in the game's demographic that would prevent that model from working now is simply not true.   In fact, those very same people who were willing to support a server community in the first years of TF2 existence now have even more disposable income should they wish to do so.   The difference between the two funding models is that as opposed to those MOTD ads, a server community that is supported through donations has to provide enough actual value to players that they CHOOSE to support that community/server. MOTD ads simply monetize anyone that connects, without providing any additional value (and in so many cases, because the system is so open to abuse, the servers are/were barely suitable for running TF2 at all in terms of performance).   There seems to be a misconception here, though. I'm certainly not saying that all servers/communities that run those ads are "bad". Far from it. Nor am I saying that those who use them are somehow doing so in a malicious or underhanded manner.   However, I AM saying that when something that has been allowed to be used on community servers sullies the general reputation of those very servers so much that we actually have players that resist the slightest change that would give community servers a little more exposure, then perhaps it is time to start the conversation about whether it is in the best interest of community servers operators as a whole to continue to allow those ads to function.   Frankly, if we have choose between restoring and rebuilding player confidence in the quality of community servers, or  allowing those ads to run until there are no players left willing to set foot on a community server, the answer would seem to be an easy one.     _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds   _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds   _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds

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