@Fletch I was thinking about how the ability to rate servers on the server browser would be a really good way of raising awareness. You could then allow the user to directly filter the rating of servers they wish to play on while also allowing them to weed out the 'bad" servers in a much quicker way. Having it readily available on the server browser would also encourage its continued usage.
Sourceforge has had a similar system for about two years and has worked really well, for example towards the end of each project page they show the percentage of positive vs negative feedback and the amount of recommendations and the users comment about the software: http://sourceforge.net/projects/processhacker/ (Shameless plug since I am one of the developers on this project :P), You can easily see both the positive and negative feedback and get a general idea quickly if its reputable and I think having stars or a % rating on the server browser would go a very long way of allowing the community itself to manage and judge a server than what the report tool is doing now. Something like 1-5 stars and maybe a comment about the rating, It could also be linked to that server/s associated Steam Group (right-click the server on the server browser > View Steam Group) and allow the user to view the ratings from other users and their comments. I think it would negate the need for any Valve (Human?) intervention, give users a powerful and more visible feedback mechanism while also guiding new users towards more reputable servers for a better (5 star?) gaming experience. ;) Is this something that could be considered down the road at some stage? On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 4:24 AM, Fletcher Dunn <fletch...@valvesoftware.com>wrote: > The abuse reporting system has only been live a total of 4 days. Give it > some time. There are no plans to give any (non-Valve) entity any special > route to get their claims of abuse escalated more quickly. > > There are still simple things we can do to increase player awareness of > this functionality, and we are working on them. > > Give it a couple of weeks or so. We'll see how much data we get back from > players, and how effective the system is at curbing these sorts of problems. > > Your humble servant, > Fletch > > -----Original Message----- > From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto: > hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of msleeper > Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 12:45 PM > To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > Subject: Re: [hlds] [hlds_linux] Fake clients, misreported bots, > infringing usage of player names/images > > Fletcher - Is there someone we can report blatantly, aggressively > abusive servers to in an attempt to escalate the worst offenders to > human intervention? I don't think any of us here are expecting a > flawless programmatic solution to the issue of Bad Servers, nor would > we expect Valve staff to spend paid manhours joining and checking > servers instead of working on much more important tasks, but as > someone else said, the 1% worst offenders are "too big to fail" and > seem to be falling through the cracks in your automated systems. The > reporting tool sounds like a great solution, but my immediate concern > is that it might not pan out like you (and us server ops) are hoping > since the vast majority of players probably aren't even aware of such > problems. > > On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 2:50 PM, Fletcher Dunn > <fletch...@valvesoftware.com> wrote: > > This is a problem we're obviously aware of. It's definitely not that we > don't care. However, it is essentially an arms race that is provably > unwinnable by Valve. Furthermore, any change we make in the name of > security will almost certainly cause a disruption of legitimate service, > due to bugs on our part, or usage cases we're just not aware of. It is a > classic conflict between security and accessibility. > > > > Hopefully those two reasons help explain our reluctance to address these > sorts of problems through technology. They will create an ongoing arms > race, in which we can possibly limit this activity and make it harder, but > probably never eliminate it completely. Furthermore, this benefit comes at > a cost of taking resources away from adding features and fixing bugs, and > also disrupting legitimate users. > > > > When we can do simple and safe things to make it harder to do these > sorts of things, we will. We have some protocol changes that will make it > harder to do this sort of spoofing, which have been beta tested for some > time now. We'll be rolling those out in the next couple of months. > > > > Crowdsourcing using the abuse reports helps us stay out of the arms > race, and it's the safest and simplest way to deal with this problem and > many others like it. > > > > Your humble servant, > > Fletch > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto: > hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Mart-Jan Reeuwijk > > Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 5:39 AM > > To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list > > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Fake clients, misreported bots, infringing > usage of player names/images > > > > there is some italian group that does that. > > > > they have dozens maybe even in the hundred of servers in server list, > but all get redirected to 1 server. and those server report a variety of > maps played, names in server lists etc. you click info, refresh, says for > example dustbowl, and then join, get redirected to their server, with bots, > and another map then advertized in the server info. Its damn annoying. And > indeed, they change IP's a lot, to evade blacklisting. > > > > > >>________________________________ > >>From: daniel jokiaho <daniel.joki...@gmail.com> > >>To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list < > hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com> > >>Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2011, 7:27 > >>Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Fake clients, misreported bots, infringing > usage of player names/images > >> > >>what about servers on different ips and port that have exactly the same > >>players. > >> > >>I join server x. U join server y. And still we play against or with each > >>other :-( > >>On 2 Nov 2011 06:53, "msleeper" <mslee...@ismsleeperwrong.com> wrote: > >> > >>> Are you sure they're not just adding more servers? Changing IPs is a > >>> server playerbase suicide as anyone who had it bookmarked won't be > >>> able to find it again. I suppose they could use those servers for > >>> redirects, but in theory that would get those IPs blacklisted pretty > >>> fast if Valve's scoring/reputation system is still in effect. > >>> > >>> On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 1:42 AM, Jesse Porter <reacherg...@gmail.com> > >>> wrote: > >>> > The problem with blacklisting these servers is that they seem to > show up > >>> a > >>> > few weeks later with a new batch of ip addresses. Can't blacklist > them > >>> > effectively when they do that. > >>> > On Nov 1, 2011 7:40 PM, "Robert Paulson" <thepauls...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> >> It is very rude of you to repeatedly spam the mailing list to > pressure > >>> >> Valve into doing whatever you want instead of working on crashes and > >>> >> content. > >>> >> > >>> >> Valve has already put in a huge effort making these servers less > >>> prominent. > >>> >> > >>> >> - Blacklist > >>> >> - Quickplay > >>> >> - Reputation > >>> >> > >>> >> It isn't perfect but blacklisting takes care of the servers you > don't > >>> like > >>> >> once you've spotted them. Quickplay and reputation filter most of > the > >>> ones > >>> >> you haven't spotted yet. No one I know has any problems finding a > server > >>> >> full of real players. Everyone I know just blacklists and move on. > >>> >> > >>> >> Server IPs do not change often since it costs money to buy new ones > and > >>> you > >>> >> need proper ARIN justification to get more due to the IPV4 > shortage. The > >>> >> fact that you are on here spamming about it as though TF2 is going > to > >>> die > >>> >> out next week makes me think that you are struggling with your own > >>> server > >>> >> rather than being a concerned player. > >>> >> > >>> >> I also hate the big pay-to-win servers with fake clients, but it > would > >>> be a > >>> >> mistake for Valve to just de-list them, wrongly assuming no one > really > >>> >> wants to play there. I have a friend who wouldn't be playing TF2 if > they > >>> >> didn't exist and has bought hundreds of dollars worth of Mann Co > keys. > >>> And > >>> >> from what he tells me he isn't the only one. Yes he knows there are > >>> bots. > >>> >> The "cloaked" bots appeal to him for the same reason Valve decided > not > >>> to > >>> >> name bots bot1, bot2, bot3 and to have them taunt randomly. > >>> >> > >>> >> These servers still exist not because of a fake player plugin but > >>> because, > >>> >> as much as it pains us to believe, some players actually prefer > them. > >>> >> > >>> >> No one here is enthusiastic about having Valve delist servers based > on > >>> >> anonymous reports because we all know that the system will be abused > >>> even > >>> >> though they have "taken basic measures to prevent" it. We know this > >>> because > >>> >> they also took "measures" to prevent F2P players from avoiding VAC > bans > >>> by > >>> >> making throw-away accounts, yet I still see hackers that have made > at > >>> least > >>> >> 5 of them in a row and even adding their old VAC banned account on > their > >>> >> friends list. > >>> >> > >>> >> To save Valve the administration overhead and abuse, and to satisfy > both > >>> >> server administrators and players, I suggest dropping the server > report > >>> >> function and adding either of these 2 features. > >>> >> > >>> >> 1. Add a check-box for Valve-only/Favorites-only Quickplay servers. > >>> >> > >>> >> 2. Let premium players rate servers from 1 to 5 upon disconnection. > Each > >>> >> player may only vote once. To prevent voter apathy, servers are > >>> >> automatically rated a 5 if the player does not vote. Then the user > can > >>> >> decide for him/herself to connect to the server based on the rating > >>> rather > >>> >> than a few opinionated complainers. > >>> >> > >>> >> These two solutions address the root of the problem and lets the > player > >>> >> decide while freeing Valve to work on more content. > >>> >> _______________________________________________ > >>> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > >>> >> please visit: > >>> >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >>> >> > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > >>> please visit: > >>> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >>> > > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>> please visit: > >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >>> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > >>http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >> > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
