"We" (the TF2 players) have enough servers as it is. There is no expectation that new servers have any "right" to a full and active playerbase. Why would someone want to open a TF2 server if they have: no players, no community, and in the face of thousands of viable, ready to play in, servers?
On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:47 PM, Valentin G. <nextra...@gmail.com> wrote: > It's not the servers (that already exist) are the problem. It's that > the already existing playerbase is constantly reduced. > > I want servers to flourish by using what's available, not by cutting > down large server owners. That's backwards logic. > > On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 12:42 AM, Nerdboy <nerdb...@gmail.com> wrote: > > No I mean you, as the big dogs, are part of the problem and should > > scale back your networks if you're concerned about the little guy. > > > > On 1/24/14, Doctor McKay <mc...@doctormckay.com> wrote: > >> So newcomers need to face the "big dogs" with hundreds of servers with > >> their one server? > >> > >> > >> Dr. McKay > >> www.doctormckay.com > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:35 PM, Nerdboy <nerdb...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>> An easy solution to allow newcomers to get more traffic would be to > >>> reduce the number of servers you run. That way quickplay traffic is > >>> distributed more evenly rather than "who bought the most rack space?" > >>> > >>> On 1/24/14, Valentin G. <nextra...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> > Then explain how should people remedy this situation? > >>> > > >>> > Not every community can retroactively join the master race and > >>> > suddenly be around for 6 years and have a great playerbase out of > thin > >>> > air. Yes, there are servers that currently rely on quickplay. So what > >>> > if 50% is QP traffic. That's still 50% of players that are returning. > >>> > In order to increase that percentage of returning players we still > >>> > *need* to have the other 50%. If people don't even come to your > server > >>> > in the first place (by being in the 50% QP population) there is not > >>> > even the *chance* of them staying around. > >>> > > >>> > This is the model when you use QP. Use the system, deliver an > >>> > experience that continuously moves the split towards a healthy, > >>> > returning player base. Of course it would be great if players still > >>> > went around the server browser and naturally found out about new > >>> > servers and stayed there. Since that doesn't happen anymore, newer > >>> > communities have to rely on quickplay. That's simply how it works. > >>> > It's really great for all the people here that have a long history in > >>> > their community and a stable and returning playerbase already. Not > >>> > everyone can enjoy that, and you are trying to prevent them from even > >>> > having the ability to achieve that. > >>> > > >>> > I really hope one day people get that into their thick heads. There > >>> > are start-ups that haven't been around since the TF2 beta. They *can > >>> > not* have as healthy of a playerbase as you already have. Don't talk > >>> > them down because of that, and even applaud Valve when every chance > of > >>> > building up their community is ripped from their hands. > >>> > > >>> > On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 12:14 AM, Gordon Reynolds > >>> > <thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> >> Maybe there is a point to take from this. > >>> >> > >>> >> Maybe the kind of people who played TF2 pre-F2P era, aren't the same > >>> >> people > >>> >> who want to play TF2 now? > >>> >> > >>> >> Demographics change, if you think the same type of people pick up > TF2 > >>> >> today > >>> >> as the ones who paid money to pick it up pre-F2P, you might be in > for > >>> >> a > >>> >> bit > >>> >> of a shock. Or not, look at your numbers, 50% of your population is > >>> >> just > >>> >> there because that's where they ended up, they didn't choose to be > on > >>> >> your > >>> >> server. > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:10 PM, Doctor McKay < > mc...@doctormckay.com> > >>> >> wrote: > >>> >> > >>> >>> Find me a vanilla server that remains populated without the help of > >>> >>> Quickplay. They don't exist. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> Dr. McKay > >>> >>> www.doctormckay.com > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 6:07 PM, Gordon Reynolds < > >>> >>> thisisgordonsem...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > So if you've had a server for a few years and you still get 47% > >>> >>> > quickplay > >>> >>> > traffic doesn't that tell you that you're running a server that > >>> >>> > might > >>> >>> > be > >>> >>> > twice as large as it needs to be? I mean if you pulled regulars > >>> >>> > from > >>> >>> > quickplay players wouldn't that number slowly drop (during peak), > >>> >>> > because > >>> >>> > of all your regulars? > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > Or do quickplayer honestly, literally, -not care what server they > >>> >>> > are > >>> >>> on-, > >>> >>> > and will never add your server to favorites as is? > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 8:11 PM, Doctor McKay > >>> >>> > <mc...@doctormckay.com > >>> > > >>> >>> > wrote: > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > The cvar was actually added at the request of myself and > several > >>> >>> others. > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > I took the liberty to make a chart showing exactly what percent > >>> >>> > > of > >>> >>> > > my > >>> >>> > > players come from Quickplay. The result was disappointingly > high: > >>> >>> > > http://i.imgur.com/91xNnU1.png > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > I don't expect any more than 20% of Quickplay users to uncheck > >>> >>> > > the > >>> >>> > > "Official servers only" box. That means that I have lost around > >>> >>> > > 40% > >>> >>> > > of > >>> >>> my > >>> >>> > > traffic. My community is relatively popular, too. Smaller > >>> >>> > > communities > >>> >>> or > >>> >>> > > communities that are just starting up will lose a lot more > >>> >>> > > traffic > >>> >>> than I > >>> >>> > > will. > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > Dr. McKay > >>> >>> > > www.doctormckay.com > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 10:48 PM, Robert Paulson < > >>> >>> thepauls...@gmail.com > >>> >>> > > >wrote: > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > > > It's quite obvious really. Valve only makes features to > benefit > >>> >>> > > themselves > >>> >>> > > > or players, and cl_connectmethod was at face value did not do > >>> >>> > > > either > >>> >>> > one. > >>> >>> > > > > >>> >>> > > > They don't care about server owners having this knowledge > >>> >>> > > > unless > >>> >>> > > > it > >>> >>> > > > benefits them and didn't even bother to protect the convar > from > >>> >>> > spoofing > >>> >>> > > by > >>> >>> > > > a using 1 convar flag. > >>> >>> > > > > >>> >>> > > > Its main purpose was to stop server owners from complaining > >>> >>> > > > about > >>> >>> > > > all > >>> >>> > the > >>> >>> > > > restrictions placed on quickplay on the flawed assumption > that > >>> >>> > quickplay > >>> >>> > > is > >>> >>> > > > a tiny and unimportant part of your player base. > >>> >>> > > > > >>> >>> > > > > >>> >>> > > > > >>> >>> > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 7:20 PM, Doctor McKay > >>> >>> > > > <mc...@doctormckay.com > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> > > > wrote: > >>> >>> > > > > >>> >>> > > > > While I agree with what you are saying, what does > >>> >>> > > > > cl_connectmethod > >>> >>> > have > >>> >>> > > > to > >>> >>> > > > > do with any of this? > >>> >>> > > > > On Jan 23, 2014 9:12 PM, "Robert Paulson" > >>> >>> > > > > <thepauls...@gmail.com> > >>> >>> > > wrote: > >>> >>> > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > First they came for the custom attachments, and I did not > >>> >>> > > > > > speak > >>> >>> > out. > >>> >>> > > > > > Because I did not use it. > >>> >>> > > > > > Then they came for fast respawn, and I did not speak out. > >>> >>> Because I > >>> >>> > > did > >>> >>> > > > > not > >>> >>> > > > > > use it. > >>> >>> > > > > > Then they came for increased slots, and I did not speak > >>> >>> > > > > > out. > >>> >>> > Because > >>> >>> > > I > >>> >>> > > > > did > >>> >>> > > > > > not use it. > >>> >>> > > > > > Then they came for the MOTD, and I did not speak out. > >>> >>> > > > > > Because > >>> >>> > > > > > it > >>> >>> > > would > >>> >>> > > > > hurt > >>> >>> > > > > > others more than me. > >>> >>> > > > > > Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak > >>> >>> > > > > > for > >>> >>> > > > > > me. > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > This is a repeat of the "Custom Tabs" fiasco. Except > Valve > >>> >>> probably > >>> >>> > > > won't > >>> >>> > > > > > remove it this time because they can wave the evidence > that > >>> >>> > > > > > a > >>> >>> > > minority > >>> >>> > > > of > >>> >>> > > > > > players use quickplay, despite the fact that quickplay > has > >>> >>> > > > > > a > >>> >>> > monopoly > >>> >>> > > > on > >>> >>> > > > > > new players and without them your server is dead. Your > >>> current > >>> >>> > > players > >>> >>> > > > > > won't play TF2 forever. > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > I saw this coming a mile away when Valve released the > >>> >>> > > cl_connectmethod > >>> >>> > > > > > convar. As I have said time and time again, Valve has > >>> >>> > > > > > obligations > >>> >>> > to > >>> >>> > > > > server > >>> >>> > > > > > owners as well as players. We, or at least I, bought TF2 > >>> >>> expecting > >>> >>> > > not > >>> >>> > > > > to > >>> >>> > > > > > have our hosting abilities crippled so much. > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 5:11 PM, Doctor McKay < > >>> >>> > mc...@doctormckay.com > >>> >>> > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > wrote: > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > Why? > >>> >>> > > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > Adding a "Valve servers only" checkbox (that's checked > by > >>> >>> > default) > >>> >>> > > is > >>> >>> > > > > > going > >>> >>> > > > > > > to hurt enough (and only those communities that are > >>> >>> > > > > > > playing > >>> >>> > > > > > > by > >>> >>> > the > >>> >>> > > > > rules; > >>> >>> > > > > > > cheating communities will just steal *more* traffic > from > >>> the > >>> >>> > > > legitimate > >>> >>> > > > > > > communities). > >>> >>> > > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > It's now all but impossible to try to retain a client > who > >>> >>> joined > >>> >>> > > via > >>> >>> > > > > > > Quickplay (and those are the clients we *need* to > >>> >>> > > > > > > retain). > >>> >>> > > > > > > We > >>> >>> > can't > >>> >>> > > > > show > >>> >>> > > > > > > them our website. We can't even allow them to use a > menu > >>> >>> > > > > > > to > >>> >>> jump > >>> >>> > to > >>> >>> > > > > > another > >>> >>> > > > > > > one of our servers anymore. > >>> >>> > > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > Please think about what you're doing. If your intention > >>> >>> > > > > > > is > >>> >>> > > > > > > to > >>> >>> > harm > >>> >>> > > > the > >>> >>> > > > > > good > >>> >>> > > > > > > communities, you're doing a fine job at it. > >>> >>> > > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > > Dr. McKay > >>> >>> > > > > > > www.doctormckay.com > >>> >>> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > >>> >>> > > > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the > >>> list > >>> >>> > > > archives, > >>> >>> > > > > > > please visit: > >>> >>> > > > > > > > >>> >>> > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >>> >>> > > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > >>> >>> > > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the > >>> >>> > > > > > list > >>> >>> > > archives, > >>> >>> > > > > > please visit: > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >>> >>> > > > > > > >>> >>> > > > > _______________________________________________ > >>> >>> > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the > list > >>> >>> > archives, > >>> >>> > > > > please visit: > >>> >>> > > > > > >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >>> >>> > > > > > >>> >>> > > > _______________________________________________ > >>> >>> > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>> >>> archives, > >>> >>> > > > please visit: > >>> >>> > > > > >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >>> >>> > > > > >>> >>> > > _______________________________________________ > >>> >>> > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>> >>> > > archives, > >>> >>> > > please visit: > >>> >>> > > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> >>> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>> archives, > >>> >>> > please visit: > >>> >>> > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>> >>> archives, > >>> >>> please visit: > >>> >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >>> >>> > >>> >> _______________________________________________ > >>> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > >>> >> please visit: > >>> >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > >>> > please visit: > >>> > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >>> > > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>> please visit: > >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> please visit: > >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
