--- Lobster wrote:
> Yes... we can agree on possibly suspicious, then?
> =========
> OK
> ==========
:)
> 4) Any other scenarios? (I am including the
> possibility of spammers in scenario 3, btw)
> ==========
> recently whilst trying to fix computers
> it became obvious what was the cause of it not working
> until that possibility was removed
> - then it could only be [insert cause]
> - that was removed and so on . . .
> Scenarios are based on our tendencies, experience and knowledge
and intuition and imagination and ...
> - some people blame everything on the bios, or on viruses or hardware,
> or malcontents or microsoft etc . . . some even
> think it is an act of God . . .
She would not caise computers to malfunction..
> ==================
> Again you are jumping to interpretations
> I am suggesting Joe may be able to HELP
Hi Joe - you have any idea what caused the now-agreedupon-possibly-suspicious mail?
> ==================
>
> I was not playing a game with you or anyone else.
> The person who freaked me out WAS playing a game...
> and at the time i felt that truth counts for
> something...
> ===========
> Maybe they were
> What do you feel was your role in this game?
The person was playing that game long before they met me and they continue to play it and i fully understand why they do what they do. I did not cause the person to play the game, which is of longstanding duration. My "role" in the game was being innocent of the deceit that was going on, that is all. Had the person been trutful with me at an earlier time, there would have been no role for me at all in the game.
> ===========
> I expect people to behave reasonably
> Spam is deleted (unreasonable)
> If people wish to improve others in terms of knowledge
> or any other way they are welcome to try
I seem to recall that it is usually promoted that people improve themselves first, and not trying to change others...
> - try me try me -
You're incorrigible...
(that's a compliment)
>
> As for boundaries they too need to be reasonable
> Yours are not (on occasion)
Yes - sometimes too lax and sometimes too tight.
I do the best i can with what i have been given.
> ========
> then delete his 'ramblings', delete his 'intrusive efforts'
Well, it is not that simple. How do i know if any given mail from anyone contains [whatever] until i open it? I can choose to block certain people's mails, but that seems extreme, i think.
> You are making a judgement about someone I see as quite innocent
What judgement did i make? I said that he was being insensitive and inappropriate for persisting after i asked him to stop, but i did not make any judgements other than that.
I did not say that he had bad intentions, in fact in my first reply to him i said in the last paragraph " i know you are trying to be kind and helpful."
It feels as though you may have missed that? You seem to be assuming that i have accused him of having bad intentions, when i have not done that at all.
I think your judgement of me (that i am making a judgement about someone you see as quite innocent) is a mistaken judgement of me. I said he was being insensitive to my wishes but that i know that he was trying to be kind and helpful. I did not accuse him of any bad intent. It feels as though you are misjudging me, accusing me of not giving him credit for trying. I never said there was any bad intent or that he wished me ill will - never did i say that.
> and demanding they change,
I did not ask him to change... i asked him to stop.
> were as you are quite empowered to deal with
> the situation
>
> You are welcome to say you do not agree with ts
> or it is useless or unhelpful or whatever
Lob, i said that in my first reply to him. I said "Sorry ts, but it was not of use to me. It feels pretty insensitive, although i know you are trying to be kind and helpful." He did not receive my saying that very well based on his reply to me and things escalated from there.
> ===========
> Lob, you know me pretty well and you know my
> circumstances (i think). Do you think that there is
> something that ts can "improve" that years of
> therapy with IvyLeage professionals have not been
> able to totally eliminate? I am a great believer in
> healing and i know what feels healing to me and what
> does not...
>
> ==========
> You say that is not possible
> OK
> So why not just as when
> people advise that a computer glitch
> may be caused by (insert unlikely explanation)
> we just thank and delete
>
I said to him that i know he was trying to be kind and helpful and deleted his mail from my inbox..
> Do we demand that person not provide help or suggestions
> unless they have been vetted by [insert required qualities]?
I think there is a point after which i asked him to stop that it would be appropriate to stop. I think it can be harmful to someone (like me, for example) for people who are uninformed or unaware of the circumstances of a situation to try to "help" in ways that are ultimately counterproductive, despite everyone's best intentions..
> ==========
> Now, you can choose to say that my saying that
> "disables others who are trying to enable me" - so
> be it. There are limits and there are boundaries and
> there should be respect.
> ==========
> I see both you and ts as being respectful
> your behaviour appears unreasonable
> - though that is just my unreasonable perception . . .
If Person A says please stop and Person B persists, who is reasonable? Does Person A's "right" to be left alone have more or less weight than Person B's "right" to not leave Person A alone? I don't know what the answer is to this one... I am inclined to feel that the person who says No should prevail in the absence of a compromise.
I don't feel, as a person who has experienced what i have, that i have been unreasonable. I feel very lucky to be alive... even with the aftereffects that can get triggered.
> =============
> Some people are oversensitive
> and some insensitive
> That is life
Yes.
> =============
> You may have set a boundary in your head
> and think it lasts for ever
> That may be so.
> I do not know - goal posts change . . .
Yes, they do, you are right. :)
> ===========
>
> people can respect boundaries of others
> people can honor agreements that have been made between them previously
> people can be more sensitive
> people can work on trying to "improve" themselves first instead of trying to "improve" me or others
> people can learn what is an appropriate way to treat others who have different limitations
>
> ==========
> yes indeed
More agreement... i like that.
> ========
>
> Lob, i should not have to be put in the position of
> explaining all of this very very very very private
> information here. i know you are trying to be
> helpful... i TRUST that you are trying to be
> helpful... but there are other places and other ways
> this could have been discussed or accomplished...
> this hurts.
> ===========
> I do not remember you being asked to provide private info
I don't think there was any other way than to be truthful and open... I could have just used the old "Because i say so" answer instead of being candid, but then what would you have thought? That i was arrogant and ignorant and irrational and unreasonable... The only possible answer about things was the truth, imo. Look, i am not perfect, i am not perfectly whole... i do my best... i do pretty darn well all things considered.
Lately, it has not been much fun being me, though. This issue of my limitations has come up on another list, too, and i have paid a steep personal price... But i think that honesty was the only respectful answer to give you.
> I am trying to be helpful
I know that, and i do appreciate it, Lob. I welcome your help.
> but as you point out this may not be possible
I feel that if would have been less painful (for me) to talk about this on the other forum, but i know you have your reasons for keeping it here. I stilll trust you.
> If it hurts - don't do it
> I am not in pain
Good.
> so there is no reason to stop
> Do you have a reason to stop?
> Can you?
> Who is responsible here?
> Lobster
> ============
>
love and peace,
joyce
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