On 2/21/13 7:04 PM, Michael Thomas wrote:
Lorenzo Colitti wrote:
On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Michael Thomas <m...@mtcc.com
<mailto:m...@mtcc.com>> wrote:
That's why we have ULAs and multiple prefixes.
ULA's are of limited use. I still want to start my washing machine
regardless of whether I'm at home or not.
And you'll know the current IPv6 address of that washing machine how?
If you assume renumbering, then the inevitable conclusion is that
the address at which you can reach the washing machine from outside
your home will change. Therefore, something has to store that address
somewhere that's accessible from outside the home, and it has to
update it frequently enough that there are no significant outages.
Yes, that is the conclusion. The thing that I hold out some hope that
we won't
be sucked down the NAT septic tank this time around is that the need
to globally
address things on my home network won't be a geek-only oddity, but a
real live
requirement that needs to be solved unlike NATv4.
So, I think what we can observe from the number of readily discoverable
security cameras on the internet. was that the real-live requirement was
at least partially solved thanks to upnp and dynamic dns registration,
is not a geek-only-oddity, survives renumbering, and was for the most
part done quite badly. hopefully it can be done better in the future.
Now do I have a lot of belief that this works well in real life? No,
not really.
Particularly about naming, and the things being tossed around here
give me
little hope that problem is even understood, let alone that solutions
will be
forthcoming.
I don't see how this requirement is different whether you use
NPTv6+ULA or dynamic global addresses. The only difference that I see
is that in the case where the machine has a global address, it knows
what that address is without having to ask a rendezvous server
outside the network. In the case where it only has ULA, it doesn't
know what its address is unless it asks a server.
Yes, NPTv6 as I recall begs the question of split resolvers and all of
the
ickiness that brings with it. Fred can tell me I'm wrong if I'm wrong.
Exactly. This group can specify alternatives, and if they're good
enough, they'll get used.
I don't think that it's controversial to say that any solution that takes
into account the many things we want to accomplish is going to be
complex.
Far more complex than what the average home-router-with-nat does right
now.
Rube Goldberg is not our friend here. It scares me.
I think NAT became popular because users didn't want to pay ISPs
twice to connect two devices. That was a pretty strong incentive. I
think the incentives are much weaker with IPv6 now that residential
ISPs provide at least a /64, and in most cases much more.
Yes, there were many reasons but the real point is that the IETF could
scream
foul, issue rfc's (i'm not really sure it ever did, but...) and
generally try
to stay relevant, but it didn't really matter. Utility fsvo "utility" 1,
architecture 0.
I don't know about naming and security, but renumbering works using
address deprecation (that's been in the spec since forever), and
since it's covered by RFC6204 and there are conformance tests for it,
devices with the appropriate logo will support it. Support for prefix
delegation across multiple routers is spotty, and there's no way to
make it work in arbitrary topologies, but for what it's worth, I run
it at home and it does work (my operator-provided CPE supports DHCPv6
PD and all I needed to do was plug in an IPv6-capable CPE).
source+destination based routing has been demonstrated to work.
Naming is the one thing I'm almost certain is out in la-la land even
in the
big leagues. For home I'm pretty certain that handwaving would be a
generous
description of the current state of affairs. And then there's securing
things
which is always great for a good belly laugh.
Mike
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