Hi Milton, Thanks for posting such a thoughtful reply. Here are my thoughts:
> Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 12:04:29 -0700 (PDT) > From: Milton Kicklighter <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Please check this new link for tonguing video! > To: The Horn List <[email protected]> > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Wendell, > ? > I have just been watching your video on stopping notes with the tongue.? I > must say the way you do it.... and you would have to show me in more > detail.... there is not that very unpleasant TUT sound that you would > normally get by stopping the note with the tongue.? You illustrate that very > bad TUT sound very well in the beginning of the video. > ? > I guess my question is:? Why would you not start a student tonguing in the > traditional way first?? First of all, I defy you to tell me what the traditional way is. It seems to me that there are a number of "traditional ways." If you are sitting down with a student, do you go through the same kind of description as one sees here on these forums or that appear in some books? I would hope not; way too complicated, and they all run the danger of losing the most important factor in playing- the constant airstream. I do start all my students the 'traditional' way- with legato tonguing. First one learns to hold a note with the air, then one slurs notes and then goes to legato tonguing. Now what? When you want to go to short tonguing and keep the air going and not confuse the student by bringing in other factors that might get in the way, the best thing is to teach them more pronunciation. I think this is superior methodology. That is why I use it. It is simple and effective and does nothing to hurt or confuse a player. > I could see that if there is a problem with tongueing one might want to go > try something else.? I think I understood you to say that you started with > the SWT method first and just didn't change.? That is correct. Like i say, it is not about whether or not I , or anyone else has problems, it is about methodology that is consistent and effective. Think of it as just another arrow in your quiver of expressive playing abilities. > How do you think you might?have progressed if you had learned the traditional > way?? I have no idea. Kind of a moot question. But I would not trade what I learned from Charlie Bubb Jr. for anything. Frankly, I'm really glad i learned his way. It works. To me it was traditional. It made me focus my attention on exactly the sound I wanted to get. This is VERY important. I can't say how important this is. We need to focus our attention on what we what to hear and let our body do what it needs to do to get us there. Define traditional. And once you do that, i will tell you my opinion of it. > Did you use the SWT method because you had a problem or was that the method > your teacher taught?? That was his method. I had no problems tonguing. After a couple of years at Eastman where i ran into all sorts of discussions of this, i asked him if he still taught that way. He said he did, for all the reasons that I am enumerating here and on the video. > ?The sound you get when you use your method is certainly ok and doesn't have > any of that bad TUT problem.?? Thanks. That is the goal. Many great players and others have mastered it. By controlling the length of the vowel sound and keeping the air going, you can have any sort of staccato sound you want. I consider this a lost art, not some kind of rogue teaching. To me it is superior methodology. > ? > I did try a little using toot and tut.? I found that when using toot the tip > of the tongue?was farther back?from the upper teeth than when using tut, and > did not produce a ugly ending.? Very interesting. ?? Just get the right pronunciation for the sound you want. You can hear on the video where I start to go from too short- no vowel, to a more beautiful staccato as the length of the vowel sound increases. You get to a point where there is a nice ring to it. Keep the air going. Our brains are capable of doing just about anything we ask for. Don't get in the way with a lot of conscious attempts at micro managing. Just go after what you want with sound fundamentals. > ? > I do think that most people thought... as did I...??that the SWT method?would > create the nasty TUT?sound that you illustrate in the beginning of your > video.? And without the proper instruction, I think that is the sound that > most people would get when using the SWT method.??For that reason alone... > proper instruction... I don't think I would ever start a student using that > method.? Well, I start all my students that way because it works and they can get short tonging going early on without disrupting their airflow or trying to do god knows what with their glottis. Many students have developed throat issues because they think that tonguing on the horn is somehow really complicated. By using this method I can get them away from that very easily. There are some people who can't do an efficient legato tongue, often from too much tongue involvement. You have to learn that first. Bad instruction is always a problem, no matter what the subject. I agree that I would not teach something i didn't know how how to teach, but that is just me, and you, probably. One of the things i hope to establish in the coming years is a more compete study of methodology and teaching methods. i also hope to have a summer retreat where we can both learn to play and learn to teach at the same time. Stay tuned folks. > ? > There is an older recording out there?of one of the great orchestral horn > players that illustrates this point very well.? Jimmy Chambers play-es the > horn.??Jimmy is gone now so I don't think he would mind me bringing this up > and since I have always admired him as one of the really?great orchestral > horn?players, I think I can be forgiven for saying this.? His tonguing on > that recording sort of reminds me of what I think a machine gun would sound > like?on the battle field, and I think that?kind of sound is?what most of us > visualize when we think of SWT playing.? Haven't heard it. sorry. I agree that people have a bad opinion of this because of bad usage. All the more reason to clean it up. I think we all need to be more involved with subtlety and nuance rather than just gross generalities. I would like to see more interest in musical expression and less worry about mechanical issues. If one is motivated by musical expression, the means to that define ones' mechanics. It shouldn't be the other way around. i think this is a modern over-reach past the less intellectual and less studied approach of the past. We need to go back a bit from this fascination with mechanics and spend a lot more time on the music. Hence my next book. > ? > I plan to?fool around with it a little and I will?let you know what I think.? > That is if I can make it work for me.?? Since I don't have to "perform" any > more, it might be fun to try out something new. Don't worry, you can't hurt yourself doing this. :-) Quite the contrary. Keep in touch. If you have a webcam, you could demonstrate it for me sometime. > ? > Regards. > > Milton > > Milton Kicklighter > 4th Horn Buffalo Philharmonic > Retired Thanks for the great interview Milton. Sincerely, Wendell Rider For information about my book, "Real World Horn Playing" and the DVDs, go to my website: www.wendellworld.com _______________________________________________ post: [email protected] unsubscribe or set options at https://pegasus.memphis.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
