All the usual pressing is of evil for the tone. I have never noticed pressing on the lower lip. As I use "einsetzen", there is no pressure on the lower lip at all. The mouthpiece is "hanging" in the lower lip thus keeping the lip opening appropriate. There is a little pressure on the upper lip as to avoide the side escape of the air (often be noticed, with the ugly noise). But one must care that the pressure is just used to keep the mouthpiece firm on its place. Pressing to get out higher notes is of evil, really, as it will pinch the tone definitely. Together with a narrow bore mouthpiece, .... Forget about horn tone characteristics. Well, admitted, playing in the higher region in fff dynamics requires some pressure. I said SOME pressure, to hold the lips together, thus holding the pitch. I read these messages before todays two rehearsals for Bruckner 7, so I had plenty time to auto-observe my playing for double-check before answering.
Pressing: yes, - lower lip: no, - upper lip: as required to avoid air escape & to hold the lips in place What kind of pressure 1: as little as possible for the task What kind of pressure 2: vertical (front) pressure: as little as possible - horizontal pressure (thickening the lips by contracting): excellent when using the lips like a cushion between teeth & mpiece, means shortening the vibrating part of the lip by contracting NOT by stretching. Understood ? ============================================================ ============================================= -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Loren Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 1:57 AM To: 'The Horn List' Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Horn Digest, Vol 29, Issue 23 Well in the case of the horn, I have been taught (and practice) to have more pressure on the bottom lip and the minimum possible on the upper lip; the purpose of resting the mpc on the lower lip is to control the pressure on the upper lip. I find that if I use too much pressure on the upper lip I lose accuracy, dynamic control and wear my lips out prematurely. I am not a tuba player, but when I have played around on the tuba or baritone, I have found it helpful to have the lip pressure equal and more centered in the mpc. Arnold was a great tuba player of course, but I don't think his advice mentioned in the subject post applies to horn mpc. Loren \@() [EMAIL PROTECTED] (520) 403-6897 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sheldon Kirshner Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 5:35 PM To: The Horn List Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Horn Digest, Vol 29, Issue 23 Hi, Arnold taught that high tessitura playing is done more efficiently with a smaller reed. When he played in our high C range on the tuba, which he did easily, and musically, he used a small reed at the bottom of his mouthpiece--but didn't change his mouthpiece. He taught that in the extreme bass tessitura a large reed will produce relatively more resonant sonorities. And, for example, driving the bass register in the tuba using a small reed produces a more strident sound. He was originally a cornet player, then a trombone player and finally a tuba player. Arnold said that the mouthpiece pressure should be equal on both lips. And I suspect that there are many brass players who have injured their lips in not following that admonition while playing, particularly, in the extreme high tessitura and at great volumes. And, as you say, one should use lots of free flowing air. Shel -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] du]On Behalf Of Wendell Rider Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 2:07 PM To: Horn-List Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Horn Digest, Vol 29, Issue 23 >message: 4 >date: Wed, 18 May 2005 12:53:00 -0500 >from: "Sheldon Kirshner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >subject: Re: [Hornlist] Embouchure Problem > Arnold Jacobs told me that many fine brass players have unorthodox >embouchures. > >Shel Hi, Arnold Jacobs told me the same thing and I remember him sitting there with a horn mouthpiece and putting it on his lips in different places and buzzing away. Of course he got notes out because his lips were lined up nicely and he could buzz very well without a mouthpiece, even though he discouraged that. He even had me play while I was sucking in on the horn. This was to show that blowing hard really isn't that important- you can play just as loud sucking in as blowing out. Anyway, if there was one issue I would have with Jake if he were still around, it would be that it doesn't matter where you set the mouthpiece as long as you have your air right. This is probably 100% right on Tuba because basically you stick the mouthpiece under your nose and blow. Its not going anywhere. Trombone is close to that. Trumpet you can always favor the upper register, although I would say that many modern players are playing with what is closer to horn embouchure placement than ever before. The horn is basically a Bass Trombone with a different bore and a small mouthpiece that plays in the trumpet range much of the time. An eighth inch of setting difference can mean the difference between success and failure. We have so much range to cover. The of success of any "unorthodox" embouchure can only be measured by the ability to control the beast in all registers and dynamics. Hey, if it works, it works. Define "works". Phil Farkas once told me that when he wrote in his book that there WAS a fundamental playing position for the horn, back in the 50s this was big news, that he had stated that 95% of great players had certain things in common. He said that ever since then, he had been deluged by people, looking for help, who were convinced they were the other 5%. In fact he told me that whenever one writes something like "99% of the time this is true", people reading that are going to be thinking, "I'm that 1%". I was one of those people. I was wrong. This and other topics will be great grist for the mill at Tuscaloosa, where you are welcome to my exhibit and ongoing therapy session. Wendell Rider For info about my book, "Real World Horn Playing", and the summer seminar, please visit my website at www.wendellworld.com _______________________________________________ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/skirshner%40am eritech.net _______________________________________________ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/loren%40mayhew s.us _______________________________________________ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.d e _______________________________________________ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
