From: Jerry Houston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Marc Gelfo wrote:
> Just curious -- why/how did old notation come about? Why would
"they" write the notes an octave below their sounding pitch? We
all know the disadvantages (non-contiguity with treble clef, more
ledger lines, etc.) but surely there must have been some
advantage?
Jerry -- Sorry to have to write critically, but essentially everything
in your answer is questionable and explains nothing.
They didn't. The horn isn't (usually) a C instrument, so transposed
parts need to be placed either above or below the sounding pitch.
That doesn't explain why C horn sounds notation at an octave below the
written pitch. That the horn is not a C instrument has nothing to do
with notation conventions. The contrabass and contrabassoon are C
instruments, but both also sound an octave below notated pitch.
What looks like a middle C on an F horn part is actually the F
below middle C. But we (modern notation) still write it just one
line below the treble staff.
This silly concentration of F horn is ahistorical. The "old notation"
for bass clef notation on horn was to notate an octave lower than the
equivalent notation on treble clef. This is true for all keys. At
the time this practice arose the F horn was not any sort of standard.
Horns were crooked in all keys, and while there was an obvious
difference in sound, capabilities, and technique between low (perhaps
Bb basso and C) middle (D through F) and high (G through C alto) I
know of no evidence that any particular of these crookings were
considered a timbre reference point for all the others.
We place it a fifth above its actual sound (for a horn in F),
whereas in the early days, they placed it a fourth below.
Can you provide a citation or example for this? The original question
was about _bass_ clef. I know of no example of horn written in old
notation, i.e. written an octave low, in treble clef. Why would
"they" notate only bass clef an octave too low. (Are the unidentified
"they" the ancestors of the same "they" who today ride around in black
helicopters? The helicopter hadn't been invented in the 18th century,
so were "they" forced to satisfy themselves corrupting and confusing
horn parts? A citation would help us identify these conspirators and
then perhaps we would believe your speculations.)
The best explanation I have ever read for old bass-clef notation is
that, in the days when paper and copying were expensive, tedious, and
difficult, horns (and other wind pairs) were often notated on a single
clef, at least in score. The other instruments have more limited
range, but in the occasional passage where the second horn must
descend into the written bass clef while the first plays in normal
range, the two parts would be notated with separate clefs on a single
staff. It would not always be possible to keep the notated lines
separate if the normal bass clef were used-- the lines would need to
occupy similar positions on the staff. So the second would be notated
with a bass clef (written an octave below normal position) and lots of
ledger lines.
Examples of this multiple clef notation in modern editions are rare,
perhaps nonexistent, but if you can find one in an old edition, you
will notice that the bass clef applying only to the second part is
_not_ written a bass clef. It is written with the F on the space
below the staff, making it an octave lower than bass clef (contrabass
clef?). In the days of movable clefs this would not have seemed
strange to players, and might not have even deserved editorial
comment.
How might have this have carried over to notation where there is only
a single part in bass clef, and where the usual bass F clef would be
more convenient at its usual third-staff-line position? Perhaps it
was just consistency? I can't remember where I read the suggestion
that old bass-clef notation results from the practice writing first
and second on a signle staff, but perhaps others can comment.
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