Jerry, the explanation is more simple, far more simple. How often did a natural horn hit the bottom of the horns compass ? Very few times. There were no long passages "diving in the deep sea". The second horns limit was more or less the notated "c", one octave below what you name "middle c". Only this note was written in "old bass clef" on second ledger line below staff. When it was appropriate, composers wrote even the g below staff in old bass clef notation on the lowest line of the staff. The extrem range from low c (below fourth ledger line below staff) to the G below (written as below third ledger line below staff in old bass clef) was extremely rare & related to solo passages never to tutti horns. Composers used trebble clef for the horns (usually), even reaching down to c.
As transposing kept the horn parts very clean of accidentals, so the accidentals were mere signals that a note was to be modulated by hand or embouchure achieving the semitone, so the old bass clef kept it clean of confusion. One could also easily distinguish the horn parts within the crowd of winds as the horn parts had no key signatures. If modern bass clef had been used, the low c would be in the middle of the staff (third space from top), while low g would be on the first space from top, thus confusing the player easily. This kind of practica was still kept in the Romantic until the beginning of the 20th century. R.Strauss continued with the old notation, perhaps by tradition. Nother thing: The Wagnertuba parts in F (Siegfried & Goetterdaemmerung) are best written out in F-basso, so the bass clev is avoided. One reads the parts just an octave lower. And the key of F as the best sounding key for the horns was named as early as by Matheson & Meyer "die lieblich pompoesen Waldhoerner in F" (the lovely pompous horns in F) -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Haflich Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2008 7:56 AM To: The Horn List; Jerry Houston Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Bass clef notation From: Jerry Houston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Marc Gelfo wrote: > Just curious -- why/how did old notation come about? Why would "they" write the notes an octave below their sounding pitch? We all know the disadvantages (non-contiguity with treble clef, more ledger lines, etc.) but surely there must have been some advantage? Jerry -- Sorry to have to write critically, but essentially everything in your answer is questionable and explains nothing. They didn't. The horn isn't (usually) a C instrument, so transposed parts need to be placed either above or below the sounding pitch. That doesn't explain why C horn sounds notation at an octave below the written pitch. That the horn is not a C instrument has nothing to do with notation conventions. The contrabass and contrabassoon are C instruments, but both also sound an octave below notated pitch. What looks like a middle C on an F horn part is actually the F below middle C. But we (modern notation) still write it just one line below the treble staff. This silly concentration of F horn is ahistorical. The "old notation" for bass clef notation on horn was to notate an octave lower than the equivalent notation on treble clef. This is true for all keys. At the time this practice arose the F horn was not any sort of standard. Horns were crooked in all keys, and while there was an obvious difference in sound, capabilities, and technique between low (perhaps Bb basso and C) middle (D through F) and high (G through C alto) I know of no evidence that any particular of these crookings were considered a timbre reference point for all the others. We place it a fifth above its actual sound (for a horn in F), whereas in the early days, they placed it a fourth below. Can you provide a citation or example for this? The original question was about _bass_ clef. I know of no example of horn written in old notation, i.e. written an octave low, in treble clef. Why would "they" notate only bass clef an octave too low. (Are the unidentified "they" the ancestors of the same "they" who today ride around in black helicopters? The helicopter hadn't been invented in the 18th century, so were "they" forced to satisfy themselves corrupting and confusing horn parts? A citation would help us identify these conspirators and then perhaps we would believe your speculations.) The best explanation I have ever read for old bass-clef notation is that, in the days when paper and copying were expensive, tedious, and difficult, horns (and other wind pairs) were often notated on a single clef, at least in score. The other instruments have more limited range, but in the occasional passage where the second horn must descend into the written bass clef while the first plays in normal range, the two parts would be notated with separate clefs on a single staff. It would not always be possible to keep the notated lines separate if the normal bass clef were used-- the lines would need to occupy similar positions on the staff. So the second would be notated with a bass clef (written an octave below normal position) and lots of ledger lines. Examples of this multiple clef notation in modern editions are rare, perhaps nonexistent, but if you can find one in an old edition, you will notice that the bass clef applying only to the second part is _not_ written a bass clef. It is written with the F on the space below the staff, making it an octave lower than bass clef (contrabass clef?). In the days of movable clefs this would not have seemed strange to players, and might not have even deserved editorial comment. How might have this have carried over to notation where there is only a single part in bass clef, and where the usual bass F clef would be more convenient at its usual third-staff-line position? Perhaps it was just consistency? I can't remember where I read the suggestion that old bass-clef notation results from the practice writing first and second on a signle staff, but perhaps others can comment. _______________________________________________ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de _______________________________________________ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
