On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 12:49 PM, Severin Menard <severin.men...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Mhairi O'Hara <mhairi.oh...@hotosm.org> > wrote: > >> Hey Severin, >> >> I like the idea of creating a 'experienced mapper' status who can >> validate/invalidate steps, and also promote other mappers to this status, >> after they have validated much of their work and can vouch for their >> mapping abilities and consistency, while the beginners start out only being >> able to map non-validated tasks. >> > I would also propose for a future Gsoc (or kindly ask MapBox people to > think about an enhancement) something detecting in Id that objects tagged > as buildings are not squared, because I would say 90% crappy edits come > from this > Just created this issue on GitHub: https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/2624 > >> Cristiano had a great idea during the sprint of possibly including a chat >> room tab on the TM project, where beginners can ask mapping questions >> specific to the project. It would be great if the 'experienced mappers' >> could guide the beginners here too. >> > It has been discussed for a long time, it is likely documented in github, > would be good to check with Pierre G about possible developments about this > >> >> I am taking note of all the suggestions for improvements to the >> Activation process, so that we can bring them up at the next possible >> Activation WG meeting and see everyones thoughts on the enhancements and >> tools that will be able to assist. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Mhairi >> >> On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 9:45 PM, Severin Menard <severin.men...@gmail.com >> > wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Following this discussion, the Activation team feels that having an >>> extra step of validation than the one embedded in each TM job would be a >>> great asset to ensure a better quality and consistency for the OSM data >>> produced through the Activation. >>> If cleaning data or making it more consistent thrills you (it is >>> actually the case for me) and you already have a large experience of it, >>> please send an email to the activation email (copied) to likely access >>> future TM jobs with large areas of data to validate, maybe related on two >>> folds (road network vs the rest). >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> Severin >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 10:44 AM, Severin Menard < >>> severin.men...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> NIck and I made this wikipage about it: >>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager/Validating_data >>>> >>>> I should actually update it a bit. In CAR for exemple, everytime a job >>>> and task validation is done (the latter may not be finished, depending on >>>> the motivation of mappers), I unpublish the job, download the whole area >>>> and make a first quick check to identify areas where tasks were not >>>> correctly done. If it took a long time to fix, I unvalidate these tasks and >>>> republish the job. >>>> Once everything is quite OK, I repeat the same process and >>>> - clean everything with the validator >>>> - add mssing objects >>>> - improve the data consistency (especially the road network) >>>> - improve the tag consistency (again, especially the road network, >>>> according to the agreed scheme) >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> >>>> Severin >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 10:16 AM, Pierre Béland <pierz...@yahoo.fr> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Like we started yesterday, we need various ways to validate the data. >>>>> Not only via the Task Manager. Yes, global validation are a good way to do >>>>> it. We started to do for roads. If you think of other ways to validate, >>>>> please do. >>>>> >>>>> I also asked previously for monitoring tools to better follow such >>>>> huge activations. After this activation, we should make an evaluation and >>>>> assure we develop appropriate tools to support such activations. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Pierre >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> *De :* Severin Menard <severin.men...@gmail.com> >>>>> *À :* "hot@openstreetmap.org" <hot@openstreetmap.org> >>>>> *Envoyé le :* Mardi 28 avril 2015 6h04 >>>>> *Objet :* Re: [HOT] AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGH! >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> We could also make slightly evolve the Tasking Manager and create an >>>>> "experienced mapper" privileges status who would be required to have >>>>> access >>>>> to the validate/unvalidate steps and can promote any other mapper to this >>>>> status, because she/he knowsher/him and trust her/his skills. The rest of >>>>> the mappers (supposedly beginners) could map only the non validated task >>>>> (as they should supposedly do). Thoughts? >>>>> >>>>> Sincerely, >>>>> >>>>> Severin >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Chia-liang Kao <cl...@clkao.org> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Fellow mappers, >>>>> >>>>> Maintaining quality with large number of inexperienced mappers is a >>>>> critical issue. However I think that open and inclusiveness is what makes >>>>> OSM and HOT great, and we should work on accommodating newbies with better >>>>> community support or technical improvement to make tools more fool-proof, >>>>> and figure out under what circumstance we wish to tell people to refrain >>>>> from contributing. >>>>> >>>>> Heather already started drafting training support. When we circulate >>>>> the tasks to the public, we make sure there's localized tutorial and a >>>>> link >>>>> to local community's group for newbies to find help. People also wanted >>>>> to >>>>> create screencast for specific tasks. >>>>> >>>>> As a lot of people get to know HOT/OSM for the first time during >>>>> disasters, it might be also helpful if we can draft an HOT FAQ (I actually >>>>> couldn't find one, please enlighten me if there's already one) for some >>>>> common critics, so people won't be scared away because they are to >>>>> participate in a project others criticize: >>>>> >>>>> - Are the maps actually being used? >>>>> - If this is used in critical mission, what happens when it's wrong or >>>>> incomplete? >>>>> - What's the point for tracing from pre-disaster imagery? >>>>> >>>>> Personally I am awkwardly glad that Naysayers outside our community >>>>> switched from "No one is going to use your stuff, you shouldn't do it" to >>>>> "People's life are at stake because the maps are in actual use, you >>>>> shouldn't do it". But in any case we do need to tackle the issue >>>>> seriously >>>>> to make HOT even more awesome. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> clkao >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 1:20 PM Pete Masters < >>>>> pedrito1...@googlemail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> This is one of the main things I want to discuss with people at the >>>>> HOT Summit this week and a central issue for Missing Maps. If it is of >>>>> interest to any of you, please find me in DC or drop me a line... >>>>> >>>>> Pete >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 5:33 AM, Heather Leson <heatherle...@gmail.com >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Thanks everyone. Pierre, your story about new people improving is >>>>> great. I know many of us started during an emergency. >>>>> >>>>> For our dear friend and fellow mapper, Ralph. Thank you. I know I was >>>>> firm last night, but waking this morning (Doha) I really think you are >>>>> right that we need to improve new mapper onboarding during emergencies. >>>>> So, >>>>> I started another email chain about training help. >>>>> >>>>> Step by step, >>>>> >>>>> heather >>>>> >>>>> Heather Leson >>>>> heatherle...@gmail.com >>>>> Twitter: HeatherLeson >>>>> Blog: textontechs.com >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 2:37 AM, Pierre Béland <pierz...@yahoo.fr> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Andrew >>>>> >>>>> This remembers such experiences for the Ebola outbreak. With a long >>>>> Activation, we saw contributors that did improve rapidly and did a great >>>>> job. They were in the top list of contributors. >>>>> >>>>> This is social gathering, and we have to take care to accompany well >>>>> the new contributors. >>>>> >>>>> I did make some comments over the last year about improvements to make >>>>> to our monitoring tools. We should surely continue to look at this and >>>>> assure we have the possibility to both keep our reactivity and produce >>>>> quality mapping. >>>>> >>>>> regard >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Pierre >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> *De :* Andrew Buck <andrew.r.b...@gmail.com> >>>>> *À :* hot@openstreetmap.org >>>>> *Envoyé le :* Lundi 27 avril 2015 19h21 >>>>> *Objet :* Re: [HOT] AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGH! >>>>> >>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>> Hash: SHA1 >>>>> >>>>> I understand the frustration. Some times the newbies do very bad, but >>>>> some produce very good data as well. One thing that we can also do is >>>>> load large sections of the country in JOSM with the 'mirrored >>>>> download' plugin. You can then scan over a large area and just check >>>>> the roads for major problems like you mention. Even just a few people >>>>> doing this every now and then makes a huge difference. >>>>> >>>>> Remember, the tasking manager is not the only way we have to map. >>>>> Experienced people can work on their own, as long as they are mindful >>>>> of what they are doing and try a bit to avoid causing conflicts for >>>>> other mappers. >>>>> >>>>> - -AndrewBuck >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 04/27/2015 10:25 AM, AYTOUN RALPH wrote: >>>>> > If I don't scream I will end up tearing my hair out. We need to >>>>> > change what we are doing and who we are letting in to do it. These >>>>> > Activations in response to a disaster means that people's lives >>>>> > are at stake here. I am finding totally inexperienced mappers (some >>>>> > with no completed tiles and others with only one or two completed >>>>> > tiles) messing around with validating tiles or unlocking already >>>>> > validated tiles and working on them. I have a screen shot of Nepal >>>>> > #944 showing 5 validated tiles are actively locked. When I checked >>>>> > on the people that were doing this they were complete beginners. I >>>>> > have had one of the tiles I had completed opened by one of these >>>>> > beginners and started adding short little sections of disconnected >>>>> > roads (The instructions specifically ask us not to add these) then >>>>> > validating this tile, then invalidating it again. While I am all in >>>>> > favour of getting new mappers up and going this should only be done >>>>> > on the Missing Maps project and not on HOT Activations. It is >>>>> > extremely important that we get it right as quickly as possible for >>>>> > those people out in the field with injured and dead all around them >>>>> > and lives at stake for us to be rechecking already validated tiles >>>>> > because we can no longer trust them to be correct or near to >>>>> > correct. We have already had complaints about poor quality work in >>>>> > the past and this type of activity is not going to get us any >>>>> > better credibility. We really need to rethink the "open to all" >>>>> > policy for HOT Activations. I am now looking at #944 which shows >>>>> > 63% Validated right now and there is two more Validated tiles that >>>>> > are actively locked. I no longer trust the Green marked tiles as >>>>> > being checked and cleared. I know that the majority of what we are >>>>> > producing will be of some assistance in the hills of Nepal but can >>>>> > also imagine the frustration of those people with some of the >>>>> > nonsense I have managed to clean up while validating. OK. Rant >>>>> > over. I will be sending out messages to all the new mappers I have >>>>> > identified asking them to only work on the white tiles and not to >>>>> > open any of the orange or green ones until they have a lot more >>>>> > experience. Sorry to have interrupted you in the middle of this >>>>> > crisis but felt that this needed to be said. Ralph (RAytoun) >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ HOT mailing list >>>>> > HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>> Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) >>>>> >>>>> iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJVPsRiAAoJEK7RwIfxHSXb+jwQAMZhc8YlaIGFjM4sDfymuEMY >>>>> bToXaaGT4zDC5lVdFzfDEs4/u5gNsolRWyuN3jMa+tMPCDmABBOehWdywAEN3zqi >>>>> EItL6RmXn6rzOoglfGUHC26QkeI3l6nA359IbR9YL8vLld2QNGv7fqsXa6zoObp7 >>>>> /wmpXG/V9Chwf4ywtFo+eEGMvpDEykXM3fD0CLhHzNrex7iD+43O2LhZUN3kykrs >>>>> unzREelpbuulpw9zhBa8tfBYNGZLj1slC3YyLomOaBS0Tr85Jarloa1KS2fkj6ye >>>>> BF9M5F2+eXUv5I78dIt9LmloTZzcoSWJAlJkwmkykaj3uqqFBmjs16J1UWzHofFe >>>>> pB218inZmo+ZhgzmElg/AgjppQvl276GYP0S/yFkmB/pOkAR5jBvw4r2SddzOeIb >>>>> dYh4Wh0vh3sJn9FxXzWivj9qZvAwXsXggnRTyLoXOAaFCUYZTfX10nr0mdy5VjHA >>>>> XGHZNGlyRjSC1yCLYQMrwmOUprbrD5qfv3I3uxOXuYqhu4SGvTHdKJe+vKLeAn9R >>>>> QWnvqmd0OJ5ek7gu9z/AsGo3xHr8s5TJpiyKowUvRlxix5J04GOIHrW9srrxkD1w >>>>> 9InB8+y4rrASNg1ylIrAcyxBe8ZLYgDgNKGOuSsMPL37Bnu2JwBfzksyzzPmEBAy >>>>> 348dbGr81F22yS3kf9FX >>>>> =Xj3x >>>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> HOT mailing list >>>>> HOT@openstreetmap.org >>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> HOT mailing list >>>>> HOT@openstreetmap.org >>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> HOT mailing list >>>>> HOT@openstreetmap.org >>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> *Pete Masters* >>>>> Missing Maps Project Coordinator >>>>> +44 7921 781 518 >>>>> >>>>> missingmaps.org <http://www.missingmaps.org/> >>>>> >>>>> *@pedrito1414* <https://twitter.com/TheMissingMaps> >>>>> *@theMissingMaps* <https://twitter.com/TheMissingMaps> >>>>> *facebook.com/MissingMapsProject* >>>>> <https://www.facebook.com/MissingMapsProject> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> HOT mailing list >>>>> HOT@openstreetmap.org >>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> HOT mailing list >>>>> HOT@openstreetmap.org >>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> HOT mailing list >>>>> HOT@openstreetmap.org >>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Activation Working Group" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to activation+unsubscr...@hotosm.org. >>> To post to this group, send email to activat...@hotosm.org. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/a/hotosm.org/d/msgid/activation/CA%2By5pBK4ZaH%3D_jwTTVLw%2BCL4h5my-qz4WDVAQoj8m1Ln_Cm5rQ%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/a/hotosm.org/d/msgid/activation/CA%2By5pBK4ZaH%3D_jwTTVLw%2BCL4h5my-qz4WDVAQoj8m1Ln_Cm5rQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Mhairi O'Hara >> Technical Project Manager >> Email: mhairi.oh...@hotosm.org >> Indonesian Mobile: +62 822 4701 1475 >> >> *Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team * >> *Using OpenStreetMap for Humanitarian Response & Economic Development* >> >> _______________________________________________ >> HOT mailing list >> HOT@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot >> >> >
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