If only the HOT Summit wasn't happening during an activation :(
On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 8:53 AM Pierre Béland <pierz...@yahoo.fr> wrote: > At each intensive activation, we restart these discussions. We also have > made such propositions before. But no consensus. > > Yes we have to progress on this and continue to develop such > organizational aspects outside of the emergency period. I dont have time > to discuss more on this at this time. Too many subjects at the same time :) > > > Pierre > > ------------------------------ > *De :* Mhairi O'Hara <mhairi.oh...@hotosm.org> > *À :* Activation WG <activat...@hotosm.org> > *Cc :* "hot@openstreetmap.org" <hot@openstreetmap.org> > *Envoyé le :* Vendredi 1 mai 2015 8h37 > *Objet :* Re: [activation hotosm] Nepal validation of edits: looking for > a pool of "Über" Validators > > Hey Severin, > > I like the idea of creating a 'experienced mapper' status who can > validate/invalidate steps, and also promote other mappers to this status, > after they have validated much of their work and can vouch for their > mapping abilities and consistency, while the beginners start out only being > able to map non-validated tasks. > > Cristiano had a great idea during the sprint of possibly including a chat > room tab on the TM project, where beginners can ask mapping questions > specific to the project. It would be great if the 'experienced mappers' > could guide the beginners here too. > > I am taking note of all the suggestions for improvements to the Activation > process, so that we can bring them up at the next possible Activation WG > meeting and see everyones thoughts on the enhancements and tools that will > be able to assist. > > Cheers, > > Mhairi > > > > On Wed, Apr 29, 2015 at 9:45 PM, Severin Menard <severin.men...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Hi, > > Following this discussion, the Activation team feels that having an extra > step of validation than the one embedded in each TM job would be a great > asset to ensure a better quality and consistency for the OSM data produced > through the Activation. > If cleaning data or making it more consistent thrills you (it is actually > the case for me) and you already have a large experience of it, please send > an email to the activation email (copied) to likely access future TM jobs > with large areas of data to validate, maybe related on two folds (road > network vs the rest). > > Sincerely, > > Severin > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 10:44 AM, Severin Menard <severin.men...@gmail.com > > wrote: > > NIck and I made this wikipage about it: > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager/Validating_data > > I should actually update it a bit. In CAR for exemple, everytime a job and > task validation is done (the latter may not be finished, depending on the > motivation of mappers), I unpublish the job, download the whole area and > make a first quick check to identify areas where tasks were not correctly > done. If it took a long time to fix, I unvalidate these tasks and republish > the job. > Once everything is quite OK, I repeat the same process and > - clean everything with the validator > - add mssing objects > - improve the data consistency (especially the road network) > - improve the tag consistency (again, especially the road network, > according to the agreed scheme) > > Sincerely, > > Severin > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 10:16 AM, Pierre Béland <pierz...@yahoo.fr> wrote: > > Like we started yesterday, we need various ways to validate the data. Not > only via the Task Manager. Yes, global validation are a good way to do it. > We started to do for roads. If you think of other ways to validate, please > do. > > I also asked previously for monitoring tools to better follow such huge > activations. After this activation, we should make an evaluation and assure > we develop appropriate tools to support such activations. > > > Pierre > > ------------------------------ > *De :* Severin Menard <severin.men...@gmail.com> > *À :* "hot@openstreetmap.org" <hot@openstreetmap.org> > *Envoyé le :* Mardi 28 avril 2015 6h04 > *Objet :* Re: [HOT] AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGH! > > Hi, > > We could also make slightly evolve the Tasking Manager and create an > "experienced mapper" privileges status who would be required to have access > to the validate/unvalidate steps and can promote any other mapper to this > status, because she/he knowsher/him and trust her/his skills. The rest of > the mappers (supposedly beginners) could map only the non validated task > (as they should supposedly do). Thoughts? > > Sincerely, > > Severin > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 9:47 AM, Chia-liang Kao <cl...@clkao.org> wrote: > > > > Fellow mappers, > > Maintaining quality with large number of inexperienced mappers is a > critical issue. However I think that open and inclusiveness is what makes > OSM and HOT great, and we should work on accommodating newbies with better > community support or technical improvement to make tools more fool-proof, > and figure out under what circumstance we wish to tell people to refrain > from contributing. > > Heather already started drafting training support. When we circulate the > tasks to the public, we make sure there's localized tutorial and a link to > local community's group for newbies to find help. People also wanted to > create screencast for specific tasks. > > As a lot of people get to know HOT/OSM for the first time during > disasters, it might be also helpful if we can draft an HOT FAQ (I actually > couldn't find one, please enlighten me if there's already one) for some > common critics, so people won't be scared away because they are to > participate in a project others criticize: > > - Are the maps actually being used? > - If this is used in critical mission, what happens when it's wrong or > incomplete? > - What's the point for tracing from pre-disaster imagery? > > Personally I am awkwardly glad that Naysayers outside our community > switched from "No one is going to use your stuff, you shouldn't do it" to > "People's life are at stake because the maps are in actual use, you > shouldn't do it". But in any case we do need to tackle the issue seriously > to make HOT even more awesome. > > Best, > clkao > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 1:20 PM Pete Masters <pedrito1...@googlemail.com> > wrote: > > This is one of the main things I want to discuss with people at the HOT > Summit this week and a central issue for Missing Maps. If it is of interest > to any of you, please find me in DC or drop me a line... > > Pete > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 5:33 AM, Heather Leson <heatherle...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Thanks everyone. Pierre, your story about new people improving is great. I > know many of us started during an emergency. > > For our dear friend and fellow mapper, Ralph. Thank you. I know I was firm > last night, but waking this morning (Doha) I really think you are right > that we need to improve new mapper onboarding during emergencies. So, I > started another email chain about training help. > > Step by step, > > heather > > Heather Leson > heatherle...@gmail.com > Twitter: HeatherLeson > Blog: textontechs.com > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 2:37 AM, Pierre Béland <pierz...@yahoo.fr> wrote: > > Andrew > > This remembers such experiences for the Ebola outbreak. With a long > Activation, we saw contributors that did improve rapidly and did a great > job. They were in the top list of contributors. > > This is social gathering, and we have to take care to accompany well the > new contributors. > > I did make some comments over the last year about improvements to make to > our monitoring tools. We should surely continue to look at this and assure > we have the possibility to both keep our reactivity and produce quality > mapping. > > regard > > > Pierre > > ------------------------------ > *De :* Andrew Buck <andrew.r.b...@gmail.com> > *À :* hot@openstreetmap.org > *Envoyé le :* Lundi 27 avril 2015 19h21 > *Objet :* Re: [HOT] AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGH! > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I understand the frustration. Some times the newbies do very bad, but > some produce very good data as well. One thing that we can also do is > load large sections of the country in JOSM with the 'mirrored > download' plugin. You can then scan over a large area and just check > the roads for major problems like you mention. Even just a few people > doing this every now and then makes a huge difference. > > Remember, the tasking manager is not the only way we have to map. > Experienced people can work on their own, as long as they are mindful > of what they are doing and try a bit to avoid causing conflicts for > other mappers. > > - -AndrewBuck > > > On 04/27/2015 10:25 AM, AYTOUN RALPH wrote: > > If I don't scream I will end up tearing my hair out. We need to > > change what we are doing and who we are letting in to do it. These > > Activations in response to a disaster means that people's lives > > are at stake here. I am finding totally inexperienced mappers (some > > with no completed tiles and others with only one or two completed > > tiles) messing around with validating tiles or unlocking already > > validated tiles and working on them. I have a screen shot of Nepal > > #944 showing 5 validated tiles are actively locked. When I checked > > on the people that were doing this they were complete beginners. I > > have had one of the tiles I had completed opened by one of these > > beginners and started adding short little sections of disconnected > > roads (The instructions specifically ask us not to add these) then > > validating this tile, then invalidating it again. While I am all in > > favour of getting new mappers up and going this should only be done > > on the Missing Maps project and not on HOT Activations. It is > > extremely important that we get it right as quickly as possible for > > those people out in the field with injured and dead all around them > > and lives at stake for us to be rechecking already validated tiles > > because we can no longer trust them to be correct or near to > > correct. We have already had complaints about poor quality work in > > the past and this type of activity is not going to get us any > > better credibility. We really need to rethink the "open to all" > > policy for HOT Activations. I am now looking at #944 which shows > > 63% Validated right now and there is two more Validated tiles that > > are actively locked. I no longer trust the Green marked tiles as > > being checked and cleared. I know that the majority of what we are > > producing will be of some assistance in the hills of Nepal but can > > also imagine the frustration of those people with some of the > > nonsense I have managed to clean up while validating. OK. Rant > > over. I will be sending out messages to all the new mappers I have > > identified asking them to only work on the white tiles and not to > > open any of the orange or green ones until they have a lot more > > experience. Sorry to have interrupted you in the middle of this > > crisis but felt that this needed to be said. Ralph (RAytoun) > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ HOT mailing list > > HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) > > iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJVPsRiAAoJEK7RwIfxHSXb+jwQAMZhc8YlaIGFjM4sDfymuEMY > bToXaaGT4zDC5lVdFzfDEs4/u5gNsolRWyuN3jMa+tMPCDmABBOehWdywAEN3zqi > EItL6RmXn6rzOoglfGUHC26QkeI3l6nA359IbR9YL8vLld2QNGv7fqsXa6zoObp7 > /wmpXG/V9Chwf4ywtFo+eEGMvpDEykXM3fD0CLhHzNrex7iD+43O2LhZUN3kykrs > unzREelpbuulpw9zhBa8tfBYNGZLj1slC3YyLomOaBS0Tr85Jarloa1KS2fkj6ye > BF9M5F2+eXUv5I78dIt9LmloTZzcoSWJAlJkwmkykaj3uqqFBmjs16J1UWzHofFe > pB218inZmo+ZhgzmElg/AgjppQvl276GYP0S/yFkmB/pOkAR5jBvw4r2SddzOeIb > dYh4Wh0vh3sJn9FxXzWivj9qZvAwXsXggnRTyLoXOAaFCUYZTfX10nr0mdy5VjHA > XGHZNGlyRjSC1yCLYQMrwmOUprbrD5qfv3I3uxOXuYqhu4SGvTHdKJe+vKLeAn9R > QWnvqmd0OJ5ek7gu9z/AsGo3xHr8s5TJpiyKowUvRlxix5J04GOIHrW9srrxkD1w > 9InB8+y4rrASNg1ylIrAcyxBe8ZLYgDgNKGOuSsMPL37Bnu2JwBfzksyzzPmEBAy > 348dbGr81F22yS3kf9FX > =Xj3x > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > HOT mailing list > HOT@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > > > > _______________________________________________ > HOT mailing list > HOT@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > > > > _______________________________________________ > HOT mailing list > HOT@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > > > > > -- > *Pete Masters* > Missing Maps Project Coordinator > +44 7921 781 518 > > missingmaps.org <http://www.missingmaps.org/> > > *@pedrito1414* <https://twitter.com/TheMissingMaps> > *@theMissingMaps* <https://twitter.com/TheMissingMaps> > *facebook.com/MissingMapsProject* > <https://www.facebook.com/MissingMapsProject> > _______________________________________________ > HOT mailing list > HOT@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > > > _______________________________________________ > HOT mailing list > HOT@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > > > > _______________________________________________ > HOT mailing list > HOT@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Activation Working Group" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to activation+unsubscr...@hotosm.org. > To post to this group, send email to activat...@hotosm.org. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/a/hotosm.org/d/msgid/activation/CA%2By5pBK4ZaH%3D_jwTTVLw%2BCL4h5my-qz4WDVAQoj8m1Ln_Cm5rQ%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/a/hotosm.org/d/msgid/activation/CA%2By5pBK4ZaH%3D_jwTTVLw%2BCL4h5my-qz4WDVAQoj8m1Ln_Cm5rQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > > > > -- > Mhairi O'Hara > Technical Project Manager > Email: mhairi.oh...@hotosm.org > Indonesian Mobile: +62 822 4701 1475 > > *Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team * > *Using OpenStreetMap * > *for Humanitarian Response * > *& Economic Development* > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Activation Working Group" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to activation+unsubscr...@hotosm.org. > To post to this group, send email to activat...@hotosm.org. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/a/hotosm.org/d/msgid/activation/CAByqXHJ%2B696RdYa8AF2-zX%2BHvobVjUM26FGPG7gxj_Y0mv_qwA%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/a/hotosm.org/d/msgid/activation/CAByqXHJ%2B696RdYa8AF2-zX%2BHvobVjUM26FGPG7gxj_Y0mv_qwA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > > _______________________________________________ > HOT mailing list > HOT@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot >
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