Hello Stefan & Blake,
I concur with the comments about the "tag soup"
mess. As I have mentioned before, I am new to
this OSM environment but have some years
experience with GPS and GIS mapping and database design.
To be honest, I was appalled when I discovered
that the OSM database design looked like a
glorified scratchpad. I just downloaded and
inspected 366,017 OSM database records. There
were 18 Key Terms and scores of values. I
extracted the unique combinations of keys/values
and ended up with 388 records of those.
It is difficult to describe the results in detail
as patterns are very hard to see with this
system. Suffice it to say, there is an abundance
of overlap, redundancy, ambiguity and a confusing
intermingling of features and attributes. Using
traditional methods of querying a database, it
would be impossible to definitively extract a
meaningful subset of any of the 366,000
records. Generally speaking, the problem is that
one feature may be described in many different ways that are not consistent.
Having said all that, since I frequently hear how
well all this mapping information is received in
the field, I must conclude that this mishmash of
tagging somehow creates a usable end product. It
may well be that I am not aware of magic
techniques that bring order to all this chaotic
tagging. However, if it works, it is
good. However I do believe that it will work
better with a more robust database.
Sorry to offer this harsh critique, but in
decades of looking at database structures for
both geographical and administrative
applications, I have never seen such a jumble of terminology.
Anyway, I have put together what I believe is a
more appropriate Data Dictionary that generally
parallels the best practices in database
design. I have found this approach to be very
useful, and also useful in the field, since being
introduced to it by Trimble Navigation in the early 90s.
I am impressed with the enthusiasm that permeates
the crowd GIS initiative but concerned that the
geographical and database underpinnings may be
less than ideal. My observation from creating a
few software applications, is that the lesser
trained are the users, the much greater
investment there needs to be in the user
interface and training. GIS and GPS data
collection is not particularly intuitive.
My approach in projects of this kind is always to
start at the far end with the users - what
information are they wanting for whatever it is
that they do? Then I look at the reporting
requirements and finally design the data collection process to feed into that.
In the case of this emergency relief operation,
I'm hard-pressed to see the value in mapping
video games, hairdresser, gymnastics, karate and
volleyball. To be fair, many of the other
attributes could have value in providing relief
services but in the record set that I downloaded,
there seems to be little information related to
the emergency relief effort. In over 366,000
records there are only 19 marked as aeroway = helipad.
I'm not sure just how thorough you intend to be
with the "updating, streamlining and
regularizing" but I would be happy to help where possible.
It would probably not be overly difficult to
substitute a new feature/attribute catalogue into
the OSM database. Translating the existing mass
of keys and values to their new equivalent might
be more challenging. Databases succeed because
they conform to standard pattern sets.
Again, sorry to be less than enthusiastic but perhaps things can be improved.
Thanks for your patience, Cheers . . . . . . . . Spring Harrison
At 17-05-2015 08:29 Sunday, Stefan Keller wrote:
Hi Blake Many thanks for your clarifications.
2015-05-15 22:13 GMT+02:00 Blake Girardot
<bgirar...@gmail.com> wrote/a écrit: ... > We
would welcome any assistance with updating,
streamlining and regularizing > HOT's tagging
and tagging guidance and underlying data model
if need be. I'd like to help and my proposal is
1. to collect and identify most common tags
specific to HOT 2. to mention and document them
in Wiki page "Humanitarian_OSM_Tags" [1] So, to
begin collecting the candidates, I only foumd
these two: * damage:event=* *
operator:type=private goveernment community
The "idp:camp_site=spontaneous_campp" is already
sub-specific to a disaster event. Any others tag
or key candidates? Yours, S. [1]
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Tags
2015-05-15 22:13 GMT+02:00 Blake Girardot
<bgirar...@gmail.com>: > > Hi Stefan, > > HOT
(and OSM) tagging has grown and evolved since we
first started 5 or 6 > years ago that is for
sure. And given the somewhat intermittent >
participatory nature of OSM and the wiki things
can for sure get out of > sync. > > We would
welcome any assistance with updating,
streamlining and regularizing > HOT's tagging
and tagging guidance and underlying data model
if need be. It > is a big project for the folks
in and out of HOT who developed and maintain >
it. > > It was through gentle ;) feedback from
the OSM community that we have > started use
some more planned tagging schemes you mentioned
so there is yet > time for some of that to catch
up. > > I am excited for us to roll up our
sleeves and give the tagging, guidance, > data
model and rendering a timely review and
updating. At the moment many in > HOT are
concentrating on working with our fellow
travelers in Nepal (and DRC > and Vanuatu and
Guam and South Sudan and Nigeria and several
other places > unfortunately), but when that
begins to thankfully be less of an urgent >
matter several of us look forward to joining you
fully in the process. > > And like I said, any
reorganization or updating and streaming in the
wiki > you could help us with in the mean time
will be very welcome and > appreciated. If you
have any questions please just ask them here on
the > mailing list but under a different email
thread so it is less confusing > talking about
something that has nothing to do with this
thread. > > Cheers, > Blake > > > On 5/15/2015
8:43 PM, Stefan Keller wrote: >> >> Salut
Pierre, hi Will, dear leading HOT members, hello
all >> >> 2015-05-15 18:44 GMT+02:00 Pierre
Béland <pierz...@yahoo.fr >>
<mailto:pierz...@yahoo.fr>> wrote: >> >>> Such a
response has brought various discussions on the
HOT list on how to >>> both respond quickly and
assure data quality. >> >> >> I really
appreciate your work and the work of all
contributors. So >> excuse me if I'm little bit
too harsh now. >> >> I'm trying to to collect
the minimal common set of HOT tags for >>
specifying a renderer, for future use and for
OSM quality in general. >> >> Will already
answered finally in an earlier post (thanks!) -
but I'm >> sorry to say: What we (OSM) now have
in HOT pages is a tag mess since >> years! >> >>
Please correct me if I'm wrong. Perhaps there a
process on tagging >> mailing list I'm missing?
Here's what I found: >> >> To me the potential
main HOT tag page is "Humanitarian_OSM_Tags"
[1]. >> This page is very "orphaned" - it has
been edited twice since 2013(!?). >> It
prominently points to
"Humanitarian_Data_Background" as "An >>
up-to-date list of tags for HOT" - being a page
which has been updated >> 3.5 years ago
(!?). >> >> Then I see that no single wiki page
with Nepal in its title - including >>
"2015_Nepal_earthquake" [3] - is pointing to
Humanitarian_OSM_Tags, >> whereas the
Nepal_remote_mapping_guide [4] mainly lists the
usual main >> tags (like building=yes,
natural=wood|water, water=*, waterway=river, >>
waterway=stream, landuse=farmland). >> >> I
would expect at least to see tags like
damage:event and idp:camp_site >> - being top 20
in [6] - to show up in any wiki page related to
tags >> mentioned above. >> But these aren't
even mentioned in the wiki except somehow in [4]
- but >> which was declared outdated 2013. >> >>
How can we clean up this under-documented mess
and "tag soup" at least >> for a small common
set of tags? >> >> Yours, S. >> >> [1]
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Tags
>> [2] >> >>
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Tags/Humanitarian_Data_Background
>> [3]
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/2015_Nepal_earthquake
>> [4]
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Nepal_remote_mapping_guide#Tagging
>> [5] >> >>
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Tags/Humanitarian_Data_Model
>> [6]
http://nepal-taginfo.openstreetmap.hu/keys >> >>
>> 2015-05-15 18:44 GMT+02:00 Pierre Béland
<pierz...@yahoo.fr >>
<mailto:pierz...@yahoo.fr>>: >> >> >> This
OSM response for Nepal is quite challenging. And
even more >> difficult for our friends at the
Kathmandu Living Labs (KLL) who >> have to
suffer the emotional impact of the second
earthquake this >> week. They also have to
move from the famous Yellow house to
a >> school. This should assure them a more
secure area to work. >> Cheers to them that
maintain the Nepal earthquake Ushahidi
map, >> provide various mapping services to
the humanitarian in the field >> and assure
the interface with the Nepal governement and the
various >> UN Coordination structures for
this response (ie The clusters
to >> coordinate sanitation, water, logistic,
food distribution, health, >> etc). >> >> As
usual, the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap community
assures the >> interface between the OSM
community, the UN agencies and
the >> international organizations. We
support the OSM remote response
from >> around the word and we co-coordinate
with KLL. We both interface >> with the
DHNetwork digital organization and various other
groups via >> Skype. We have a great support
from the International Charter >> (imagery
providers), UNOSAT, DigitalGlobe, Airbus, the
HIU unit of >> the US State dept., Google,
and our dedicated OSM/HOT
experienced >> contributors and
developpers. >> >> Plus the various groups
that provide the 30 minutes updates for
the >> various OSM exports. >> >>
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/2015_Nepal_earthquake#Map_and_Data_Services
>> Still more challenges to come with the
landslides risks and the >> monsoon coming
soon. >> >> At the same time, it is important
to assure a good coordination of >> the OSM
community from around the world. The statistics
below show >> great numbers and some
challenges with all the new contributors
that >> participate to the response. Note
that these are preliminary >> statistics that
can be revised later. With less then 3 weeks
of >> response, we already have edited more
the 13 million of objects. >> >> The pbf
export file increased from 27 megs april 24 to
84 megs >> yesterday. Three times bigger.
This is quite awesome. It also shows >> how
we should adapt to such a rapid growth of the
OSM database for >> Nepal and maintain
quality to adequately respond to the
operational >> needs of the humanitarian
organizations in the
field. >> >> >> Preliminary statistics, Nepal
Response Apr-25 May 15,
including >> worldwide mecchanical
edits NB >> Contributors
*6,456* >> Days *11,877* >>
Changeset Sessions *154,048* >> Objects
edited (ie. Points, lines,
polygons) *13,089,247* >> >> >> Such a
response has brought various discussions on the
HOT list on >> how to both respond quickly
and assure data quality. OSM >> crowdsourcing
can be compared to an image that we load
throug >> internet. First, we have a quite
inprecise image, coming clearer >> gradually.
The Mapathons a bit of this role. If
unorganized, they >> can bring a lot of data
quality problems. The worlwide
OSM >> community can play a strategic role in
such a response by >> contributing to
structure the way the new contributors learn OSM
and >> edit the map. For the first day of
contribution, what is important >> is that
people better understand what are the various
steps and >> provide quality data. If we
succeed to bring them a second day
to >> help, this will show quite a
significant succcess since the majority >> of
them contribute only one day for the
response. >> >> There will be surely Lessons
learned from this Response. For now,
I >> suggest that people that organize
Mapathons communicate with >> activation @
hotosm.org <http://hotosm.org> and provide some
infos >> about the Mapathon >> - who
Organize this mapathon >> - town,
country >> - Name, email of
organizers >> - how many experienced osm
contributors to support the mapathon >> - Nb
of people that you plan to receive >> -
twitter account if you plan to publish
updates >> - indicate that you give HOT the
license to reuse photos that you >> publish
on Twitter. This can help for outreach and
various Blog >> updates. >> >> *Various map
products* >> >> UNOSAT GDACS Live map with
geolocated damage analysis. >> >>
https://unosat.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=b9f9da798f364cd6a6e68fc20f5475eb
>> >> Visualisation, /Potentially Dangerous
Glacial Lakes of
Nepal >> / >>
http://geoportal.icimod.org/storymaps/nepalglakes/
>> >> Lanslides in the mountains with the
last earthquake this week - See >> this video
to better understand the reality of people
living in >> remote areas of Nepal with only
paths connecting the high
mountain >> villages. >>
https://twitter.com/pierzen/status/599005434733789185
>> >> A Visualisation Gift from Christian
Quest of OSM-fr >> New contributions to OSM
for
Nepal >> Awesoooooooooooooooooooooome!!! >>
http://osm.cquest.org/nepal/#9/27.7139/85.3198
http://osm.cquest.org/nepal/#9/27.7139/85.3198 >>
>> twitter update on
this >>
https://twitter.com/pierzen/status/599232884982026241
>> Cheers
all >> >> Pierre >> >> >>
_______________________________________________ >
> HOT mailing
list >> HOT@openstreetmap.org
<mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org> >>
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot >> >
> >> >> >>
_______________________________________________ >
> HOT mailing list >> HOT@openstreetmap.org >>
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot >> >
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