I agree Russ, that is important to bring out.
John said to me recently: validation is as much about coaching skills as anything.
There also are two different audiences for osm validation, the HOT/Missing Maps community volunteer type of mappers from around the world, helping people around the world with maps and who are donating their scarce time because they want to make a difference.
And the context of training GIS professionals, government employees or NGO staff who use OSM data and OSM mapping tools because it is the best platform by far for community and civic development as well as disaster preparedness, risk and harm reduction and recovery processes.
That latter group of people can get a little different validation experience than the former group.
But as John rightly points out, an understanding of good coaching skills on the part of the validators will help both groups of mappers be most successful.
cheers, Blake On 1/15/2016 3:30 PM, Russell Deffner wrote:
Hi John and all, You elude to something that maybe we haven’t really considered – Validation takes more than technical skills, it takes a teacher/mentor/helper personality. Even if we create some great training for how to validate, it might not be enough to bring the ‘right’ kind of people. Just something that caught my attention in this conversation, =Russ *From:*john whelan [mailto:jwhelan0...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2016 6:25 AM *To:* Yantisa Akhadi *Cc:* HOT Openstreetmap; Mikel Maron *Subject:* Re: [HOT] OSM Data Quality Assurance Curriculum Draft I currently do a fair amount of validation, I don't think we have enough validators and whilst iD knowledge is nice to have I don't see it as being essential. I accept that in some circumstances JOSM may not be practical and it is not an ideal tool for everyone but let me sit a new mapper down at a machine with JOSM set up with the building tool and give them a project about mapping buildings and I'll get five times more buildings out of them than I will in iD not only that but they'll be more accurately placed, squared and correctly tagged. For landuse=residential and highways again I don't see the area=yes, the zebra pedestrian crossings, the untagged ways, the crossing ways and the highways almost meet errors that I see all over the place from iD mappers. I also see fewer this last quarter got missed. If you get them to outline the landuse=residential but don't tag immediately and just tag them at the end I can get a lot more productivity out of them as well. OSM can be edited with a variety of tools, iD is fashionable this week it may not be next week. I think there is a different set of skills needed for validation and for teaching. Validation and giving feedback for new mappers takes time, typically I can map twice as much work as I'm validating in the same time. The only off set is occasionally I get new mapper who is accurate and will carry on to map a few hundred tiles and at a good level of data quality. You need lots of patience for validation, two who have tried it have expressed frustration at the way instructions and tutorials are ignored. Cheerio John On 13 January 2016 at 21:12, Yantisa Akhadi <yantisa.akh...@hotosm.org <mailto:yantisa.akh...@hotosm.org>> wrote: Hello all, I really appreciate all the replies on this matter. Probably it will be better if I add the context of why we work on this curriculum first. This curriculum is part of our strategy to improve OSM data quality, especially in Indonesia. In these past 4 years, we have trained more than 2,400 people all over Indonesia. Yet the training material largely focus on how to collect spatial data using OSM. There is little focus on quality assurance and validation, since it is hard to teach this material to people who just knew OSM. Another reason was if there is large scale disaster happened in Indonesia, we need pool of mappers as we also need pool of validators. It is true that some of these materials have been discussed in different platforms (learnosm, teachosm, and course.hotosm.org <http://course.hotosm.org>) and these platform have been a great contribution for us to work on the curriculum. At the same time we need to ensure that the training materials will be applicable in Indonesian context. Therefore we also develop Indonesian tagging standard as a reference. About the audience as specified in the docs, probably "Prerequisite" would be a better word. It is expected that validators would understand about iD so that they can guide new user on how to map faster and better in iD (eg. using shortcuts and how to add additional tags). The use of Overpass is recommended, but we think that it would help their work better. I believe that this curriculum is more act as a guide for validators rather than the rule that they should follow. The needs for validators also true in Indonesia, that is why we develop this curriculum and we are planning to use it in our upcoming training and hopefully would add more validators throughout the countries. Furthermore, we hope that this curriculum would not only applicable in Indonesia, but it can be useful for others as well. Again, much appreciated for your response. Thanks, *Yantisa Akhadi (Iyan)* *Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team* Tel: +62 81 5787 03388 Email: yantisa.akh...@hotosm.org <mailto:yantisa.akh...@hotosm.org> hot.openstreetmap.org <http://hot.openstreetmap.org> | openstreetmap.id <http://openstreetmap.id> On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 11:01 PM, john whelan <jwhelan0...@gmail.com <mailto:jwhelan0...@gmail.com>> wrote: I'm unclear who the target audience is. Why do they need to know iD? Are you suggesting that only people who know everything such as overpass turbo whatever it is should be permitted to validate? We don't have enough validators in HOT at the moment how will this improve things? Thanks John On 8 January 2016 at 10:37, Mikel Maron <mikel.ma...@gmail.com <mailto:mikel.ma...@gmail.com>> wrote: Yantisa, this is pretty interesting. How do you see this integrating with courses.hotosm.org <http://courses.hotosm.org> and teachosm.org <http://teachosm.org>? Mikel On Friday, January 8, 2016, 5:04 AM, Yantisa Akhadi <yantisa.akh...@hotosm.org <mailto:yantisa.akh...@hotosm.org>> wrote: Hello all, As discussed couple of weeks ago, HOT Indonesia currently working on OSM Data Quality Assurance Curriculum and Training Material. We just finished the draft for the curriculum and we are looking for input from you. Here is the link to the document <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MwXGir0quZgAtnParhBChjx3JehFcOUDwiK41kgDVA0/edit?usp=sharing>. Looking forward for your comments! Thanks, *Yantisa Akhadi (Iyan)* *Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team* Tel: +62 81 5787 03388 <tel:+62%2081%205787%2003388> Email: yantisa.akh...@hotosm.org <mailto:yantisa.akh...@hotosm.org> hot.openstreetmap.org <http://hot.openstreetmap.org> | openstreetmap.id <http://openstreetmap.id> _______________________________________________ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org <mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot _______________________________________________ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org <mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot _______________________________________________ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
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