A few comments on the thread so far: It appears that many of the posts in this thread have avoided becoming e-mails. I've just trawled through them all on Google Groups - except where the history of UNIX and the mainframe operating systems is being mulled over.
One that appeared from Bruce McKnight is actually a half-decent limerick - and tells a story. Here's my version which a little better respects the essential rhythm of the limerick - but it's still necessary to reverse the usual accenting of "sysprog" - and "card trays" ... Sysprogs now long for the days Of blinking lights and card trays. With tears in their eyes, They wave fond good-byes To feats that no longer amaze. Based on contextual analysis and a dimly remembered phrase from my Christian education I managed to understand Shmuel's first Hebrew word, the one with the question mark. Howard Brazee gave a reference to a site which, by tapping the space bar, can identify the song. Amazing! This reminded me of my schooldays. While waiting for the arrogant house-master to arrive to conduct evening prayers, which included singing a hymn, having looked up a hymn at random in the hymn book, a colleague and I used to pass the time tapping out hymn tunes for the other to recognise. There were very few failures - so why shouldn't a computer be able to do it? - probably a mainframe after all (desperate to try to stay on-topic <g>). Now to the latest: Servus Gerhard, So I've been teaching my grandmother to suck eggs to use a thoroughly obscure English metaphor. Shmuel, cryptic as ever, didn't actually mention "das Weib" but I expect that was what he meant. I can imagine a thoroughly politically incorrect - and offensive - way I can explain why this word should be in the neuter. It's based on the attitudes I can imagine men might adopt to women of a certain age around the time the German language was formalised - the time of Luther I believe. At least it's "*die* Frau". Entschuldigen that I misread your example of gender misassignment. My simple German dictionary translates "das Backfisch" as "fish for frying" or "flapper". Thus the origin of the first component of the word is "backen", "to bake", or "Bäcker", "baker" (as it happens pronunciation is identical in case some readers are unfamiliar with the effect of the umlaut on the letter "a"). Now "flapper" - thanks to Google - can be explained as a young bird[1], "chick", trying to leave the nest and flapping its wings ineffectually, quite an effective metaphor I'd say. Since you are a germanophone perhaps you can explain why an ingénue should be basted by the expression "Der Backfisch" - only if it isn't too offensive and/or politically incorrect! Nevertheless, I believe my explanation of the gender assignment stands despite the mistaken reading of the first component of the word. Incidentally, perhaps one of the advantages of being taught a language, as opposed to growing up with it, - perhaps the only advantage - is that books or teachers point out some rules to help with issues such as gender assignment which to a "native" just need to "sound right". Thus I'm pretty sure that "-chen/-lein" isn't merely conjecture. Perhaps in English an equivalent is instinctively knowing how to handle "night wahr?" or "n'est-ce pas?"[2]. In Ulster there is a similar structure for an assertion of fact, a phrase added to the end of a sentence beginning with "so". Chris Mason [1] "Bird" for "young woman" is British slang but probably of later origin than "flapper". [2] The English "innit?" is a cop-out unfairly associated with immigrants. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerhard Postpischil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main To: <IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU> Sent: Saturday, 24 June, 2006 6:25 AM Subject: Re: Mainframe Limericks... > Chris Mason wrote: > > The gender assignment of "Der Bachfisch" is very easy to explain - although > > I'll need help with the metaphor. > > Note that it's Backfisch, not Bachfisch, the latter of which I'm > somewhat familiar with, having attended Schubert Gymnasium in Vienna for > several years, and the former I avoided because they behaved and smelled > funny <G>. > > As another point that doesn't meet your conjecture on diminutives > (-chen, -lein) is "das Weib" > > Basically you are explaining why the words you cited had a particular > gender. Seymour's point was that these are used for people and objects > they obviously do not apply to. Living languages undergo changes > constantly, hence there has to be a reason why speakers choose to use > and retain inappropriate genders. > > Gerhard Postpischil > Bradford, VT ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
