[Default] On 3 Jul 2020 12:15:16 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main ste...@copper.net (ste...@copper.net) wrote:
>> snip > >Meanwhile, you must have HLASM and probably want to have the toolkit >(separately chargeable as I understand it). You will need all the compilers >being used COBOL, PL/1, c/C++, etc.. Can you get them under a development >license? > >snip > >If I could (and because of who I work for, and for those of you who think I >work for Humana, I did at one time, but things change...), I would go to a >University or college and propose this: A Mainframe Academic center. And I >would tie that with somehow teaching COBOL (it ain't dead, and it is still >growing), and possibly CICS & DB2. If IBM still does an academic licensing >thing, then this is the cheapest way to go that I am aware of. And if you can >get the school to do an open semester year tuition allowing one to do self >directed studies.... > As someone who still follows comp.lang.cobol and vaguely keeps track of the ob market, I am skeptical about the growth of COBOL especially for new projects. It would seem more productive to have customizable packages that run on non-mainframe (z and other) systems which are at the OS level native UTF8 or UTF16. I would like to be proven wrong. Incidentally with the 2002 and 2014 language enhancements COBOL is a good tool for dealing with SMF records. Clark Morris >Believe me, with all the outsourced contractors I deal with who have degrees >in IT Theory and absolutely no PROGRAMMING experience outside of some OO >language, I could see this being something that might get some traction since >with COVID-19 we just found out that we can do classes virtually to anywhere >(those of us who have been working from Home for decades already knew that). > >And you might get certain companies to throw in their tools, such as z/XDC for >a low price. > >Ok, maybe more than 2 cents, but these are my observations having done some of >this before Outsourcing organizations became Cloud companies. > >THE HEADACHE not yet mentioned is, one may not be able to get support for this >system. So one may have to wait until a production machine somewhere hits your >problem to get an APAR/PTF. > > >Regards, >Steve Thompson > > >--- charl...@mcn.org wrote: > >From: Charles Mills <charl...@mcn.org> >To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Mainframe co-op >Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 11:41:52 -0700 > >A model to look at might be the IBM Innovation Center, Dallas. > >The price is higher than what I picture as your target: $550/month and up >IIRC. You get two dedicated VM virtual machines: one that runs CMS and that >you use as a console. You can do limited console automation with Rexx. And one >on which you IPL z/OS. The z/OS -- any current version that you want -- runs >from shared read-only DASD that IBM maintains: PTFs and so forth are IBM's >problem. You get just about every IBM product that you could possibly want -- >again, read-only DASD, with IBM doing the PTFs. > >For $550 IIRC you get everything you "need." More DASD, lots and lots of CPU >cycles, etc. entail an upcharge. > >You "own" the configuration. If you want to muck up SYS1.PARMLIB so that z/OS >will not IPL, it's your gun, your bullet, your foot. I have never done it, so >I don't know, but I would assume IBM has some way of getting you back running. >You "own" RACF. You can have as many userid's as you care to define. If you >want to experiment with permissions in any way you choose, go at it. IBM >provides very limited support: (1) if you need help you can ask by e-mail: >sometimes you get great help, sometimes not; (2) no PMR support. You are not a >z/OS licensee and thus not entitled to PMR support. I would assume that if you >had some fatal problem you could go route (1) and get IBM to address it >somehow: I have no experience. > >It is a good option for an individual or small company just a little above >your intended price point. You have to a certain extent the best of both >worlds: you have a z/OS that you can do with as you wish just as if you owned >the box; and you have IBM doing the z/OS PTFs and basic installs and volume >backups and so forth that I at least don't care to do. You do not have to do >any initial install: your z/OS will IPL on day one. > >It is current hardware. I believe we are currently running on a z14. > >There are also offerings for VM, VSE and Linux IIRC but I am not familiar with >them. > >You cannot do "production." You can let customers on for demos, but that is >it. (Speaking from memory; I am not an IBM attorney.) You have to be a >"software vendor" developing a "mainframe product" but my impression is that >IBM's bar is pretty low: you don't have to be BMC or CA. > >You might consider using that as a model. I think it is a GREAT starting point >for thinking about this. You might ask yourself "how do we tune that model so >that we could get the price down to $X?" ... whatever you think your $X should >be. And if you wanted to involve IBM in your discussions the Dallas folks >might be the right place to start. > >http://dtsc.dfw.ibm.com/MVSDS/'HTTPD2.ENROL.PUBLIC.SHTML(ZOSRDP)' > >Hopefully that link works. I am not sure PDS's make the best Web repositories. >(Gasp! Mainframe heresy!) > >Charles > > >-----Original Message----- >From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On >Behalf Of Grant Taylor >Sent: Friday, July 3, 2020 10:50 AM >To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >Subject: Re: Mainframe co-op > >On 7/3/20 11:13 AM, Seymour J Metz wrote: >> Interesting. Some questions come to mind. > >Discussion is good. > >> Would it have to have current software to attract the open source >> community? > >I don't think that bleeding edge is needed in any way shape or form. > >My personal interest would be something in the z/OS family. The bottom >end of what is still supported would be a minimum desired version. But >I think anything in z/OS is better than was is readily available now. > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
