I find that not to be true, but maybe I just deal with places that require more of the consultants. Possibly it's more of a contractor vs consultant thing, but I think assembler skills are still VERY important. Not just from the programming side, but also the debugging aspects of the job.
Brian On Mon, 9 Feb 2026 22:28:50 +0000, Dick Williams <[email protected]> wrote: >lol, Assembler skills are almost completely useless in most shops. > > >Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > >On Monday, February 9, 2026, 1:01 PM, Seymour J Metz <[email protected]> wrote: > > >That depends on the certification. One thing that I learned in school is that >if you don't know the material, open book and take-home exams will crush you. > > >-- >Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz >http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 >עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי >נֵ֣צַח יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לֹ֥א יְשַׁקֵּ֖ר > > > > >________________________________________ >From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> on behalf of >Tom Brennan <[email protected]> >Sent: Sunday, February 8, 2026 11:18 PM >To: [email protected] <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: Trade Union > > >External Message: Use Caution > > >I'll mostly agree with both. The IBM certification tests I took maybe >10 years ago meant you really had to learn the subject, because you had >to drive to a third party and take a test with no materials. You even >had to lock up your cell phone and there was a camera on you the whole >time. Some of these took me multiple tries, which was a bit >embarrassing. Side note: I didn't take these because I wanted to, it >was a job requirement. > >Lately the same IBM certifications are all online. You're given >materials in the form of powerpoints, pdfs, and even videos, and you run >through them and then take the test. You can go find the answers in the >material during the test! So most of the time it's easy to pass first >time. It's like the 10 word spelling quizzes we took each day when I >was in grammar school. I learned all 10 the night before, got all of >them right the next day, and forgot them the day after that. > >And yes, I worked with a lot of excellent sysprogs who didn't write ASM >programs. But they certainly knew what they were looking at when they >needed to review one. And they also knew things like an Sx13 abend came >from an OPEN macro, what exactly caused 0C7's, and similar details. > >On 2/7/2026 3:58 PM, Doug Fuerst wrote: >> Certifications are not worth the paper they get printed on. You don't >> need to be an assembler programmer to be a sysprog. >> >> Doug Fuerst >> >> >> ------ Original Message ------ >>> From "Farley, Peter" <[email protected]> >> To [email protected] >> Date 2/7/2026 18:35:06 PM >> Subject Re: Trade Union >> >>> +1 >>> >>> Ditto for application programmers IMHO, though the certification tests >>> would be different. >>> >>> There was a time In my younger days that I was against trade unions in >>> general and in particular against "professional" unions, but my views >>> have changed dramatically since then. >>> >>> Life is a hard teacher. >>> >>> Peter >>> >>>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> On >>>> Behalf Of Brian Westerman >>>> Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2026 4:54 PM >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Subject: Re: Trade Union? >>>> >>>> This is just my 2 cents worth so hopefully no one will be outraged by >>>> my comments, but >>>> why would anyone be excluded from certification? I know electricians >>>> that have been >>>> doing electrical work that I would not trust to change a light bulb. >>>> But the ones that have >>>> been certified tend to be a completely different (and better) class. >>>> I have known, and >>>> still do, many "Systems Programmers" that have over 25 years of >>>> "experience" that don't >>>> have what I would consider basic systems programming skills. In a >>>> gathering of systems >>>> programmers, if you ask how many know assembler well enough to write >>>> an exit, not >>>> many hands will go up. If you ask how many have actually installed >>>> z/OS with z/OSMF >>>> or Serverpac, you would likely get the same result. You might ask if >>>> it is fair to be >>>> excluded just because you don't yet know assembler or have had the >>>> "chance" to install >>>> z/OS but if you want to have a certification, then you have to >>>> establish the minimum >>>> requirements and guarantee that everyone who obtains that >>>> certification meets them. >>>> >>>> If you establish a standard that you could create a certification >>>> for, then allowing those >>>> that should easily be able to pass the certification out of even >>>> taking the "test" is silly. >>>> It would cheapen the meaning of being "certified". There should be >>>> requirements to >>>> maintain the certification as well. Just because you learned how to >>>> do something 27 >>>> years ago doesn't mean you can do it now, nor that you can do it well >>>> enough to >>>> demand a premium price to be paid to perform that work. >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>>> On Fri, 6 Feb 2026 14:45:19 -0600, Steve Beaver >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> How many of the US Consultants would be open to creating at trade union >>>>> >>>>> With the specific proviso that everyone with over 25 years' experience >>>>> >>>>> Would be excluded from getting certified but could go get >>>>> certifications >>>>> >>>>> Steve Beaver >>> -- >>> >>> This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the >>> addressee and may contain information that is privileged and >>> confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended >>> recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, >>> you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication >>> is strictly prohibited. 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