You are correct.  Just thought I'd mention it!  I definitely feel for you.  I 
continue to wish for some sort of "job class level" load library concatenation 
that would "sit" between JOBLIB/STEPLIB and the system link list.  I don't feel 
I know enough about MVS internals to make a good RFE for this.  But if someone 
has thoughts...

Frank



>________________________________
> From: "Farley, Peter x23353" <[email protected]>
>To: [email protected] 
>Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 11:38 AM
>Subject: Re: PDS/E, Shared Dasd, and COBOL V5
> 
>
>That is a well designed system, but IIRC you had the luxury to do it right the 
>first time when you migrated from z/VSE to z/OS.  Shops that have been MVS / 
>z/OS since the dawn of time have literally decades of old JCL written to 
>now-obsolete standards to contend with, much of which runs unchanged because 
>it still "just works".
>
>I am not saying this conversion cannot be done, even on a job-by-job basis 
>within particular business applications, but the investment in the SCLM 
>changes is not trivial either, and those changes must support the old compiler 
>as well as the new one so that emergency oh-dark-30 fixes to unconverted code 
>can be made in a timely manner without using the new compiler processes and 
>libraries.  I suspect that many large shops will be paying for two compiler 
>versions for quite a long time.  Good for IBM, not so good for their customers.
>
>Peter
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[email protected]] On 
>Behalf Of Frank Swarbrick
>Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 12:31 PM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: PDS/E, Shared Dasd, and COBOL V5
>
>These discussions sure make me glad we implemented steps that allow us to use 
>a single, shared include member for our "load library concatenation".
>
><Details snipped>
>
>My point here being that if we needed to add a new application load library to 
>our environment all we need to do is modify 'PROD.APPLIB.INCLUDE(JOBLIB)' and 
>'PGMR.APPLIB.INCLUDE(JOBLIB)' to add the new library.
>
>Frank
>
>>________________________________
>> From: "Farley, Peter x23353" <[email protected]>
>>To: [email protected] 
>>Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 6:47 AM
>>Subject: Re: PDS/E, Shared Dasd, and COBOL V5
>> 
>>
>>Tom, to use the process you describe there are literally hundreds of 
>>thousands of JCL's to be changed, and tens of thousands of PROC's, and that 
>>is just one large shop.  The only "zones" are QA and Production, shared by 
>>all applications.  Where do you start such a project?  The cost of regression 
>>testing alone is huge, especially in already CPU-constrained testing 
>>environments.
>>
>>New business lines, new regulatory issues, new clients:  All these will take 
>>precedence over any kind of maintenance project, whatever the eventual ROI 
>>might be.
>>
>>Programmers like me would desperately love to see the new compiler in action 
>>and get going on using the enhanced facilities -- but the procedural hurdles 
>>that IBM has thrown up with this PDSE requirement are going to be 
>>staggeringly expensive to cross over.
>>
>>Will-we-nil-we, I suppose we will eventually get there, but it's not going to 
>>be quick or easy, and far, far from cheap.
>>
>>Peter
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[email protected]] On 
>>Behalf Of Jousma, David
>>Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 7:35 AM
>>To: [email protected]
>>Subject: Re: PDS/E, Shared Dasd, and COBOL V5
>>
>>Tom,
>>
>>For us there will be no Step1 or Step2.   We will Convert existing loadlibs 
>>from PDS to PDSE.   There is way too much application JCL to change to think 
>>about changing the concatenation.
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Dave Jousma
>>Assistant Vice President, Mainframe Engineering
>>[email protected]
>>1830 East Paris, Grand Rapids, MI  49546 MD RSCB2H
>>p 616.653.8429
>>f 616.653.2717
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[email protected]] On 
>>Behalf Of Tom Ross
>>Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 3:17 PM
>>To: [email protected]
>>Subject: Re: PDS/E, Shared Dasd, and COBOL V5
>>
>>>If you set up new PDS/E program libraries for only V5 program code, 
>>>then any time maintenance on a COBOL program is done the maintainer 
>>>must be aware whether this is the first time this program has compiled 
>>>with V5 and if so, be sure any related production JCL gets changed to 
>>>reference the new library in sync with the program installation and be 
>>>sure the obsolete load module in some PDS gets purged at the same time 
>>>to prevent possible execution of obsolete code.
>>
>>How about if shops start changing COBOL build processes today to use PDSE 
>>datasets for COBOL V4 (or COBOL 3) programs?
>>Step 1 would be to allocate new PDSE datasets for each zone of load libraries 
>>Step 2 would be to add the new PDSE dataset(s) to load library concatenations 
>> where needed. If put first it would guarantee access to new programs.
>>Step 3 would be to change build processes to link old COBOL programs into 
>>PDSEs.
>>Step 4 would be to make sure this works for all systems and that old 
>>(unreachable)  programs get deleted from PDS datasets Step 5 from time to 
>>time, move needed load modules from PDSs to PDSEs until all are  moved.
>>Step 6 when all code has been moved, the only programs in PDS should be  
>>unused, and the PDS datasets could be deleted
>>
>>  If this plan was used, the COBOL V5 PDSE requirement would not be 
>>disruptive.
>>My question, is it do-able?
>--
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