--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Karen Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> He's also a great horse in most ways. I can't say that enough. EITILL IS A > GREAT HORSE. But, he's NOT the only horse I've seen who's been clicker > trained who has issues similar to what he has. As I said yesterday, even I > didn't see his OBSESSION with the clicker until I put him in a new situation > when I tried to teach him to sidepass, and that was many months after he > came here. How could you tell he had an obsession with the clicker when you were attempting to teach him to sidepass? >Up until then, all I saw was a little "quirkiness". He was fine > until I tried to teach him something new. You know, all horses learn differently at different paces, this is so odd because I have clicker trained my horses and they are still perfectly capable of learning with other methods not involving a clicker. I find that I have to be a better teacher when it comes to certain individuals, the mules are much more difficult, I have to get better (still), is it within the realm of possibility that this particular horse requires a better trainer? >He was perfectly mannerly, > standing around at the clinic last fall...UNTIL he got bored and started > snatching people's hats, picking up chairs, biting a hunk out of my helmet > when he handed it to me without me asking... I was hosting the clinic, but I > couldn't let my horse get within reach of any of the participants after > about 30-45 minutes. He stayed in his own space, quietly, until he got > bored, then he went "click-hunting". How long have you had this horse? You said this is ten years down the road. Horses are constantly learning what to do and not do, from us their handlers. I do not believe training is forever and is not modified by the person right in front of the horse. I don't think it's fair at all to blame current "problems" on something so remote. I was listening to an old horsemanship guy and he said "When things go wrong with our horses, we blame the horse, we blame our mother-in laws, but really there is nobody to "blame", but ourselves" I don't even know why there has to be blame, we just need to adjust to the situtation and become a better horseperson. Blame is useless. I think as horsepeople we need to take an inventory of ourselves, not all of those around us, that will help us to get better. What happened after the first time he snatched a hat or picked up a chair? Just because Icelandics are small and normally well behaved, they are not dogs. When I was young I learned the basics of being around horses, one I remember is never stand behind a horse, right? you stay out of kicking range. I don't think we should treat these horses like dogs, ignoring the basic rules we have about all horses, and then go blaming the horse, and blaming long gone former owners because they can't be allowed to mingle with the guests. There is no way I would let my mules at this stage, or my filly, mingle with an arena full of people, so why would I let my Icelandics, even though they *probably* wouldn't do anything? What is wrong with tying a horse to a rail and having him wait there if you are not handling him at the moment? Whether you were handling him or not, I think it's quite a stretch to say that he went "click-hunting". Dari has a tendency to be quite a character too, he used to grab my umbrella if I was carrying it in the rain and try to snatch it and would pull it down while the other "regular" horse would run in terror from it, nothing to do with clicker training. You had mentioned that one problem you had with "clicker training" was that Trausti backed up for hours? after being clicker trained to back up. After we taught Dari to turn on the forehand (definitely not with clicker training) he started to turn on the forehand every time we came to a halt, of course thinking he would please me. It was corrected in a fairly short period of time and I made it clear to him that there was a clear signal for turning on the forehand and that when we halt I am not asking for that, I also made sure I was not giving him mixed signals. Icelandics can be playful, they can be characters, they are very intelligent, they can have a sense of humor, they want to please us, and may try to hard sometimes. They can be all of these things, and that is why I love them. Maybe Eitill isn't the right horse for you, I would LOVE to have a horse like that. I seem to a few of them already. > A lot of potential owners > down the road won't like ANY playfulness, ANY invasions of space...What if > your clicker baby ends up in one of those homes? > That would be too bad, maybe not a good match. I think this whole thing is too bad, Parelli encourages "play" with horses, of course respectfully, and clicker training can do the same thing. The clicker is a simple little tool that marks a behavior, that is all it is, it doesn't create a behavior, it doesn't think up the behaviors, and when it is not there, it has nothing to do with it. It is a tool. What do they say about electricity, that it can fry you bacon or fry your fanny, it doesn't care, it would be just as happy to do either! The clicker is the same thing, it is merely a tool, you could teach a horse to kick someone in the butt, or teach them to back up and respect a person's space, the clicker doesn't care! I have used the clicker periodically for about 10 years, I use other metods too, I like NH very much also, everything blends very well for me, but I am also not new to horses, they are in my blood, it feels second hand to me, I hardly remember a life without horses, or maybe I chose not to, so I'm not sure how easy any of this would be if I were just starting out. I do think it is very important to match the right horse with the right person, every horse is not right for every person, we should all be allowed to become our fullest truest selves, including the horse, it is just not fair to try to make them into something they are not. (As for the "invasions of space", I do let my horses explore me in a gentle manner, they are taught what is appropriate, they do not grab, bite, if so they are redirected immediately, they are allowed to softly touch me with their muzzles, smell me, I think this is better than not letting them in my space at all, because then a horse doens't know what to do when he is let in, and might do something inappropriate. *see Parelli Level I DVD on letting your horse explore you) Kim
