I will argue with Robin that "current laws describing 'personal data'
omit a lot of data types that can adversely affect privacy". Take for
example the work of Xie at al. about "De-anonymizing the Internet
Using Unreliable IDs",
(http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/80964/sigcomm09.pdf) who managed
to track hosts  using their application layer activity.  As another
example (and since we are talking about Internet protocols), I believe
a user would not experience any problem if in every HTTP request was
providing different, but compatible, user-agents (and in some cases
even non-existing user-agents) (Yen et al. in "Host Fingerprinting and
Tracking on the Web: Privacy and Security Implications"
(http://research.microsoft.com/pubs/156901/ndss2012.pdf) mentioned
that “ 60%-70% of HTTP user-agent strings can accurately identify
hosts in our datasets”)

Finally there are already networking applications in which such ideas
are applied. Take for example the "Differentially Private
Network-Trace-Analysis Tools", developed by Microsoft
http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/downloads/b25759f8-db91-48a0-a1b5-87c21f9e3292/
A network mangement protocol based on "fuzzy data" seems realistic to
me.

Best,
Nikos

On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 1:49 AM, Rhys Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
> There are a few different approaches to this idea of data perturbation, but 
> they are not always applicable, as Ashok points out. Typically this is mainly 
> done in the database world where people are more interested in statistics 
> over data sets rather than particular data elements. In this case, there are 
> a few approaches - you can add "noise" with essentially a mean of zero thus 
> not affecting the overall stats, you can swap data between data elements, and 
> so on. These approaches do end up changing the statistical information 
> eventually though, so it's usually a trade-off between privacy and utility 
> (as always).
>
> I personally think it might be worth quickly mentioning the idea, but not in 
> too much detail, just providing a link for further reading - this is a rich 
> research topic in its own right and probably a bit much for most people…
>
> Best,
> Rhys.
> --
> Dr Rhys Smith
> Identity, Access, and Middleware Specialist
> Cardiff University & Janet - the UK's research and education network
>
> email: [email protected] / [email protected]
> GPG: 0xDE2F024C
>
> On 8 Aug 2012, at 23:37, Ashok Malhotra <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> In the Geolocation work, one of the features that was discussed was an 
>> option that would
>> provide an indistinct location such as the town or the county or perhaps 
>> even only the country.
>> This adds fuzziness although not noise.  If you add noise then, in the 
>> location case, you could end
>> up with an incorrect location which may not be acceptable
>>
>> All the best, Ashok
>>
>> On 8/8/2012 3:07 PM, Robin Wilton wrote:
>>> Hi Nikos,
>>>
>>> I think that's a very interesting idea. Like you, I also think we probably 
>>> underestimate the extent to which data minimisation and anonymisation 
>>> techniques genuinely obscure personal data. And yet very often, they are 
>>> the only answers to the question "What is 'Privacy By Design?'"...
>>>
>>> It could be that introducing noise or fuzziness into personal data is 
>>> another candidate. Certainly, current laws describing 'personal data' omit 
>>> a lot of data types that can adversely affect privacy - so rather than wait 
>>> for the law to redefine 'personal data', perhaps we should change the 
>>> nature of the data as you suggest.
>>>
>>> Yrs.,
>>> Robin
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPod
>>>
>>> On 8 Aug 2012, at 22:48, Nikos Fotiou<[email protected]>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>> This the first time I send something in this list, so I ask you
>>>> beforehand to excuse me if this mail is out of scope.
>>>>
>>>> I was reading draft-iab-privacy-considerations-03.txt and I found it
>>>> very interesting. However I have the feeling that Section 5 does not
>>>> take into account the advances of the “private data analysis” research
>>>> field. To my understanding research efforts in this field argue that
>>>> data minimization and anonymization are not always enough, bringing as
>>>> an example the incidence of the AOL anonymized logs. What is proposed,
>>>> in order to protect users' privacy, is to lower the “data utility” by
>>>> adding “noise”.
>>>>
>>>> IMHO a useful guideline for protocol designers would have been to
>>>> encourage them to design protocols that can tolerate a level of noise
>>>> (obscurity if you will) in the data provided by the users.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Nikos Fotiou
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 5:37 PM, Alissa Cooper<[email protected]>  wrote:
>>>>> Feedback on this draft is welcome.
>>>>>
>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: [email protected]
>>>>>> Date: July 16, 2012 3:04:37 PM EDT
>>>>>> To: [email protected]
>>>>>> Cc: [email protected], [email protected], 
>>>>>> [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], 
>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>> Subject: New Version Notification for 
>>>>>> draft-iab-privacy-considerations-03.txt
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A new version of I-D, draft-iab-privacy-considerations-03.txt
>>>>>> has been successfully submitted by Alissa Cooper and posted to the
>>>>>> IETF repository.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Filename:      draft-iab-privacy-considerations
>>>>>> Revision:      03
>>>>>> Title:                 Privacy Considerations for Internet Protocols
>>>>>> Creation date:         2012-07-16
>>>>>> WG ID:                 Individual Submission
>>>>>> Number of pages: 36
>>>>>> URL:             
>>>>>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-iab-privacy-considerations-03.txt
>>>>>> Status:          
>>>>>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-iab-privacy-considerations
>>>>>> Htmlized:        
>>>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-iab-privacy-considerations-03
>>>>>> Diff:            
>>>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-iab-privacy-considerations-03
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Abstract:
>>>>>>  This document offers guidance for developing privacy considerations
>>>>>>  for inclusion in IETF documents and aims to make protocol designers
>>>>>>  aware of privacy-related design choices.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Discussion of this document is taking place on the IETF Privacy
>>>>>>  Discussion mailing list (see
>>>>>>  https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-privacy).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The IETF Secretariat
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> ietf-privacy mailing list
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