On 16/02/2012 11:41 p.m., Dave Cridland wrote:
On Thu Feb 16 10:15:04 2012, Adrien de Croy wrote:
But SRV has issues, not every corporate runs their own DNS (at least
not for external).
Well, tough. There is a point at which we have to assume people will
have to fix things. XMPP services get this fixed pretty quick, and
mail is a much bigger juggernaut.
how many corporates deploy XMPP services?
SRV is great, but it's only marginally better than ACAP in terms of
conifguration points. You still need a domain. What happens when
you're using hosted mail? Does your mail host have to give you a
sub-domain so you can have your own SRV record to point to your own ACAP
server to get your mail config?
How many points of failure there?
That's why I keep going back to the 1 port like a broken record. Maybe
it should just be an SSH tunnel... but that;s back-pedalling quickly and
reducing potential user experience with it.
ACAP is great too, but it's another port and set of creds. And the
tie-in between ACAP and other services is probably manual on the
back-end right?
What tie-in? ACAP's just a simple store. The enhancement to the client
is that a sysadmin can preconfigure the clients, and ACAP gives a
bunch of wacky data inheritance tricks to make this easy.
as I said - manual. You have to type in the settings, the IMAP server
can't publish them automatically to the ACAP server.
I wouldn't worry too much about ACAP anyway - even I think it's
dead-end. The key portions could be slammed into almost any other
convenient protocol, and it's one case where I think bolting it onto
an existing protocol makes sense.
definitely.
This wasn't the case when it was the only viable solution for handling
address books, mind, and you'd lose the multi-account capability, but
I think people are basically OK with such things now.
Xtra is NZ's biggest ISP. It blocks port 25. So when I take my
laptop home I need to reconfigure it. At least I know how to do that.
Why would blocking port 25 be a problem? Unless you're running an MTA
on your laptop, in which case you're presumably savvy-enough to deal
with the consequences.
there are a myriad of reasons. My MTA is Thunderbird. At work, I have
my mail set to send to smtp.qbik.com with creds. When I take my laptop
home, I can't connect any more. I have to send my mail through the ISP
mail server. Some companies don't like this. Some users have trouble
configuring this. We do actually get support tickets created by this
particular issue.
You go to a hotel, same issue.
Some companies use SPF as well, so mail starts to bounce when you can't
use your corporate MTA to send.
We're techies here, we forget how lost and confused the punters get.
No matter how good the protocols involved are, it comes down to how
good the deployment and implementations are. The client is the
punter-facing component, and without good clients you're shot whatever
you do.
absolutely. But good clients can be impossible to achieve if the
protocols don't allow it.
To get "good" clients, you need mind-share, and you'll only get that
if you start off with the status quo and figure out where to go - or
if you base on another preexisting framework. Lots of folk are doing
this very successfully with the web, of course, but I think there are
other options, too.
Microsoft abandoned it all and wrote Exchange. So did GMail.
They can afford to do that. We aren't MS or Google.
Why do you think they did that? Exchange server was delayed for years.
It cost them. But now it's almost the only game in town.
All this talk of a boil-the-ocean brave-new-world is great fun, I'll
be the first to admit, but I really don't see how it gets us anywhere
useful.
I prefer my ocean at ATP.
We could just talk about what could be stripped out of IMAP. But I
don't really see how that would get us anywhere useful either.
Adrien
Dave.
--
Adrien de Croy - WinGate Proxy Server - http://www.wingate.com
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