2007/6/30, Shawn Walker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
On 30/06/07, Donal McMullan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Shawn Walker wrote: > > > More important than giving users fully working hardware out of the > > box? That doesn't seem reasonable. Users don't care about "open > > source," they care about supported, working hardware. > > Many users care about both. I would ask you to prove that. Most of the world runs Windows, OS X, etc., so obviously they don't care that much about open source. They just care about what works.
Those people don't make a choice. They just get what the computer stores sells. We are focusing on people that is open to take a look at OpenSolaris, that is people open to making choices (mainly enthusiast, developers, sysadmins), and those people, care about freedom, because those constraints are meaningful for them. So the point is, our target base, do care about open source.
Ok, but then you're handing a key differentiator to Linux, and people > will tell each other that OpenSolaris is irrelevant because it's not > really open. No, it would not be. It's the same problem that GNU/Linux distributions face. It's the same reason that Ubuntu developed a policy that basically says that they will ship binary blobs to ensure certain functionality work as intended. Ubuntu is wildly successful, yet is smart enough to realise that its best to ship a working system out-of-the-box via "restricted modules" than it is to make excuses about ivory tower ideas and philosophy.
Sure, we are not talking about removing them, but we are talking not shiping them on the main distribution. At the same time, we should focus on make those modules easy to get, and make the user aware the restrictions of that piece. Users expect things to just work, and excuses about philosophy,
freedom, etc. just don't fly.
Is not about philosophy, it's about the things developers and remasterized distributions can't or can do. Actually, the fact that flash is closed source, keeps away the embedded world away of using it, because none can recompile the thing on another platform. Opensourceness is a lot more about than just philosophy, is about flexibility, and let others find new ways to use the software to achieve new functionalities without any restriction. There are *many* GNU/Linux distributions that care more about users
than idealism and ivory tower goals that some distributions focus on. In fact, I would argue that by being willing to use the "right tool for the right job" when it is available, OpenSolaris could differentiate itself in the *right way*, just as Ubuntu has.
There is not such *right way*. The closed-minded attitude of many parts of the GNU/Linux community
leaves no room for working with proprietary vendors (even those that are "free as in beer", but not "open source").
This is not about GNU/Linux, please don't turn this about a fight to GNU idealists, if open source doesn't matter at all, why on earth is people so excited about opensolaris now and they weren't 2 years ago? Again, openness does matter. And it matters even most when we talk about distributions, because this is the way people get the software. However, this is not about keeping away closed source or making it hard to use on Indiana, this is about the identity of the project and the culture behind it which has practical consequences. Is up to people or companies that want to make a "fully just works" with everything people expect even if it is f
It is a world where backwards compatibility is tossed to the wayside, where the solution to fixing things is to upgrade half the system, without any concept of major or minor binding, and where documentation is the last thing done years after it was needed. That is why I use Solaris as much as possible now for my development work, because I never want to go back to an environment where developers care more about furthering *their own* goals and beliefs instead of giving users what they really want: a great OS/Platform.
Then, keep using Solaris, for sure, Sun will include those closed source bits by default. But this is a community project, and I think that building communities without freedom in mind is not a good start. -- Un saludo, Alberto Ruiz
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