Dear Tabish ji It is good that our interaction on the website throws up interesting results. I must admit, you are a very keen observer. I was able to collect only and photograph of V. betonicifolia from Manali. I hope you will incorporate into FlowersofIndia the photographs I sent yesterday, and not represented at that website.
Dr. Gurcharan Singh Associate Professor SGTB Khalsa College University of Delhi, Delhi India http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tabish" <tabi...@gmail.com> To: "indiantreepix" <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 1:05 AM Subject: [indiantreepix:22004] Re: Request for ID for HP Flora1 Gurcharan ji. Thanks for the detailed feedback. My perception of the flower color was based on Polunin & Stainton which describes the color of V. betonicifolia as violet. Indeed, Flora of Pakistan mentions it as lilac. Leaves are variable in both the species. The only difference I can clearly make out (for myself) is that leaves of V. betonicifolia are much longer than broad, and those of V. canescens are about as broad as long. One clear difference in the flowers of the two species, that I can see, is that the "lip" (lowest petal) of V. betonicifolia is broad and round at the tip, whereas that of V. canescens is narrow and pointed. The spur of the two is also different, as pointed out by you. Based on this, my conclusion is: Flower posted by you is clearly V. betonicifolia (which was never in doubt) - the lip is round and broad at the tip, as shown in the illustration of Flora of China. Leaves are long, arrow-like. Flower posted by Nudrat ji and those on FOI are V. canescens. The lip is narrow and pointed at the tip. I have also attached a picture of another view of the flower posted on FOI, which shows the spur. Leaves cannot be called long - the breadth is comparable to the length. Best wishes - Tabish On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 10:28 PM, Gurcharan Singh <sin...@sify.com> wrote: > Tabish ji > Please note that leaves in Viola canescens and V. betonicifolia are > totally > different. They are thicker, shining, glabrous with truncate to hastate > base, where as they are deeply cordate and much broader, not shining. Also > the spur in V. canescens is longer and slightly curved, where as it is > shorter, saccate and straight in V. betonicifolia. As for the flower > colour > pleasenote that flower colour varies from pale purple to violet, fading > with age. Kindly compare leaves of V. canescens at FlowersofIndia website, > Efloras of Pakistan and China with leaves of V. betonicifolia depicted in > link cited by you, photograph forwarded by Garg ji and illustrations at > Efloras of Pakistan and China. > > I am uploading my photograph of V. betonicifolia from Manali. Leaves and > Straight saccate spur are clearly visible. The flowers lacks violet veins, > but is a common feature in many plants illustrated by my links above. > > > Most important Indian specimens now placed in V. betonici folia were > originally known as V. patrinii. I request you to see the following > photographs: > > http://images.google.co.in/imgres?imgurl=http://hhana.biz/hanadata5/sirosumire.jpg&imgrefurl=http://hhana.biz/photod.php%3Fhana%3D1046&usg=__8qVJe1v18AzYZNq9W0mC-kvr8PI=&h=768&w=1024&sz=163&hl=en&start=8&tbnid=_WyvxQPLk9fDtM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3DViola%2Bpatrinii%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den > > http://images.google.co.in/imgres?imgurl=http://pds.exblog.jp/pds/1/200702/03/26/d0059226_16324172.jpg&imgrefurl=http://hanazukusi.exblog.jp/4671039/&usg=__aaUtl0-ErGw93cmWcBsJ31zdRI0=&h=480&w=640&sz=30&hl=en&start=11&tbnid=fJAi3IGdI879HM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3DViola%2Bpatrinii%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den > > http://images.google.co.in/imgres?imgurl=http://shiretoko.muratasystem.or.jp/2006/06/060626br.jpg&imgrefurl=http://shiretoko.muratasystem.or.jp/2006/06/060626az.html&usg=__F_Z3Jp3b2Rvu6EgANgV_HXYsGm0=&h=602&w=800&sz=37&hl=en&start=19&tbnid=Rwt6TU-N4EGTiM:&tbnh=108&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3DViola%2Bpatrinii%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den > > http://images.google.co.in/imgres?imgurl=http://www5e.biglobe.ne.jp/~lycoris/2009.04.04-6.5.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www5e.biglobe.ne.jp/~lycoris/nonohana.dayori-hiturugisan.html&usg=__OhO8Q0oQjVSbeSc5V7HUFWVjND8=&h=727&w=969&sz=123&hl=en&start=30&tbnid=uEG5GyCnyfPpDM:&tbnh=111&tbnw=148&prev=/images%3Fq%3DViola%2Bpatrinii%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26start%3D20 > > http://images.google.co.in/imgres?imgurl=http://flower.onego.ru/other/other/ena_5769.jpg&imgrefurl=http://flower.onego.ru/other/viola_n.html&usg=__lO5ecB4RWMFR1CwPvBrW420gHhY=&h=600&w=861&sz=50&hl=en&start=4&tbnid=LPzWQZqKYcIA9M:&tbnh=101&tbnw=145&prev=/images%3Fq%3DViola%2Bpatrinii%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN > > Dr. Gurcharan Singh > Associate Professor > SGTB Khalsa College > University of Delhi, Delhi > India > http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45 > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tabish" <tabi...@gmail.com> > To: "indiantreepix" <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 9:28 PM > Subject: [indiantreepix:21995] Re: Request for ID for HP Flora1 > > > > I think this should be Himalayan White Violet (Viola canescens) > without doubt. This is the only Viola species with pale violet to > almost white flowers found in the Himalayas at altitudes of 1500-2400 > m. > > Gurcharan ji absent-mindedly typed Veronica betonicifolia when he > wanted to type Viola betonicifolia. Viola betonicifolia has flowers > which are violet, and look very different from this one. See this page > for example: > http://www.anbg.gov.au/gnp/gnp11/viola-betonicifolia.html > > All other Viola species in the Himalayas at these altitudes have > yellow flowers. > - Tabish > > On Nov 1, 6:22 pm, "Gurcharan Singh" <sin...@sify.com> wrote: >> >> Garg ji >> A was able to find only one plant of this at Manali. It is Veronica >> betonicifolia (Syn: V. patrinii). This one one has narrower leaves than >> canescens, thicker, nearly glabrous, not deeply cordate at base, and >> corolla >> with a short saccate spur (spur longer, slightly curved in V. >> canescence). >> You can view google images, illustrations of Efloras of China and >> Pakistan. >> >> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >> Associate Professor >> SGTB Khalsa College >> University of Delhi, Delhi >> Indiahttp://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: J.M. Garg >> To: indiantreepix >> Cc: Nudrat ; Tabish ; Gurcharan Singh-sify ; narendra joshi ; satish >> phadke >> Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 6:23 PM >> Subject: Fwd: [indiantreepix:20203] Request for ID for HP Flora1 >> >> Forwarding again for Id assistance pl. >> Himalayan White Violet (Viola canescens)? >> http://www.flowersofindia.net/catalog/slides/Himalayan%20White%20Viol... >> >> Earlier relevant feedback: >> >> "This is Viola, experts may confirm the species!! I dont have >> literatures right now!! " from Pankaj ji. >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Nudrat Sayed <nudrat....@gmail.com> >> Date: 2009/10/5 >> Subject: [indiantreepix:20203] Request for ID for HP Flora1 >> To: indiantreepix <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com> >> >> Hello >> >> I am really grateful to all the members of Indiatreepix for helping me >> with the identification of the plants that i have been posting. Once >> again i seek help. >> >> I came across this particular delicate plant at an altitude of >> approximately 2100 mtrs. Can it be a member o Begoniaceae. Plz help >> with the identification >> -- >> Regards >> Dr. Sayed Nudrat Zawar >> Senior Conservation Officer >> Conservation Action Trust Mumbai >> >> -- >> With regards, >> J.M.Garg (jmga...@gmail.com) >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1 >> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >> Image Resource of thousands of my images of Birds, Butterflies, Flora >> etc. >> (arranged alphabetically & >> place-wise):http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg >> For learning about Indian Flora, visit/ join Google e-group- >> Indiantreepix:http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix?hl=en > > > > -- --------------------------------- http://www.flowersofindia.net The waterhole of flower lover --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "indiantreepix" group. 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