Thanks a lot Surajit ji for detailed uploads. Dr. Gurcharan Singh Retired Associate Professor SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/
On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 11:23 PM, surajit koley < [email protected]> wrote: > Sir, > > Only one plant is still alive and these fruits are growing on this very > plant. I checked 10 fruits today and only two of those fruits have > foliaceous sepals. It is interesting to note that foliaceous sepals when > present in a particular fruit are not identical to each other. This upload > is meant only for update/record. > > Thank you, > > Regards, > > surajit > > > > On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 12:09 AM, surajit koley < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Sir, >> >> Photographs of partly mature fruits and seeds, recorded on 29/11/13. >> >> Thank you, >> >> Regards, >> >> surajit >> >> >> >> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:20 PM, surajit koley < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Sir, >>> >>> This plant is known as BIBI KUMRA locallly. I forgot to mention that we >>> also eat its flower (male) fried with gram-flour. >>> After much thought I think it is *C. moschata* Duchesne as you have >>> already identified in your book or in eFI. >>> >>> Spathulate sepals (however variable it may be), pentagonal peduncle with >>> broad/expanded attachment should precede any other discrepancies in leaf or >>> hair characteristics. >>> >>> Thank you very much for this very educative discussion. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> surajit >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 9:35 AM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> We also used to cultivate the vine in Kashmir. I don't remember the >>>> fruit, but flowers were large and yellow, C. pepo or C. moschata. Our >>>> mother used to cook flowers buds and young shoots as karhi (using curd but >>>> withour gram flour) it used to be very tasty. She would make halwa for us >>>> from fruits, but at that age (8-10 years), pepo or moschata had no meaning >>>> for us. >>>> >>>> >>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>> http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ >>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 11:45 PM, surajit koley < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Sir, >>>>> >>>>> The more i read the more it gets complicated to conclude. I surely >>>>> would follow the plants in my home. We eat its leaf as SHAG/SHAK >>>>> (significantly rough & bland tasted compared to Indian spinach) and the >>>>> fruits as vegetable. We do not prepare any pumpkin-HALWA and the same can >>>>> be said about my friends/neighbour. >>>>> >>>>> Meanwhile, it has grooved/sulcate peduncle of *pepo* (Hooker & >>>>> Haines), prickly (*pepo*, Hooker), but, 1) leaves are not deeply >>>>> five-lobed (Prain) 2) problem of sepal, 3) doubt over if petiole can be >>>>> called pungent (*pepo*, Prain). >>>>> >>>>> Herbarium in the net is not helpul - >>>>> >>>>> 1. >>>>> >>>>> http://linnean-online.org/view/collection/linnean=5Fherbarium/Cucurbita.html >>>>> 2. >>>>> http://florida.plantatlas.usf.edu/SpecimenDetails.aspx?PlantID=428 >>>>> >>>>> Thank you, >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> >>>>> surajit >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 10:02 AM, Gurcharan Singh >>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Please follow them till maturity to resolve. Here in Delhi there are >>>>>> two types of fruits sold in the market. Those looking similar to yours >>>>>> sold >>>>>> as petha (most commonly) or kadu or safed kadu (some as Sita phal) and >>>>>> cooked as vegetable. These are globose, dark green with white lines or >>>>>> patches, almost flat or depressed top. The second is sold almost yellow >>>>>> in >>>>>> colour (second photograph in my book), elongated, almost oblong and up to >>>>>> 80 cm long, mostly sold as Sita phal, cooked as vegetable but more >>>>>> commonly >>>>>> as sweet halwa. Inititially I had thought them to be two different >>>>>> species, >>>>>> former as C. pepo and latter as C. moschata, but latter changed my mind >>>>>> after seeing wide range of fruits in the market and images of ayote >>>>>> squash >>>>>> on the net and its description in Vegetable crops by Balakrishnan. >>>>>> As I wrote earlier may be you will be able to give me a clear >>>>>> picture after studying your vines in detail and following up fruits till >>>>>> maturity. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>>> http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ >>>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:14 PM, surajit koley < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Sir, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There are three vines growing in our home. From ground they climb to >>>>>>> the roof of our store room as can be seen in the newly attached first >>>>>>> pic. >>>>>>> There. on the roof, they remain prostrate. They are intertwined so >>>>>>> closely, >>>>>>> firmly gripping each other with their tendrils, it is hard to separate >>>>>>> them >>>>>>> and follow individually. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yet, i rechecked thoroughly this afternoon. All bearing - >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - same leaves, no white patch on any, petiole prickly >>>>>>> - mature stem of all very prickly >>>>>>> - leaf upper surface very scabrous, lower surface hairy, but not >>>>>>> scabrous >>>>>>> - two plants bear fruit; fruits are same, peduncle grooved, >>>>>>> somewhat woody (not sure, maybe corky instead) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As for *sepals* it is the most confusing part. Of all the flowers i >>>>>>> have examined only 3 or 4 have somewhat foliaceous sepals at the tip. >>>>>>> But, >>>>>>> this foliaceous part is variable (pic xx399 in this latest record), one >>>>>>> having distinct while another is narrow wing like along the linear >>>>>>> sepal. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Surely *the fruits can be said xerox copies of your photograph in >>>>>>> page 53 of your book. Also the leaves in page 51.* >>>>>>> *Also, it can be said that my plant(s), except for sepal confusion, >>>>>>> is a copy of the illustration in FoC >>>>>>> <http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=119692&flora_id=2>.* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On the other hand all the three plants certainly oppose the record >>>>>>> of *C. moschata* by Dr. Haines, "The species is easily recognised >>>>>>> by its general softness,.." >>>>>>> But, then i might be very wrong, perhaps *C. pepo* is much more >>>>>>> harsh-rigid-prickly than i am thinking of. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> surajit >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected] >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Surajit ji >>>>>>>> If this particular plant is at a place where you can follow it up, >>>>>>>> you may be able to solve the mystery. Your photograph 312 does not >>>>>>>> show any >>>>>>>> foliaceous calyx lobes, but 336 shows clearly foliaceous. Are they are >>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>> the same vine?, if not keep track of them. Your image 323 shows the >>>>>>>> swollen >>>>>>>> tip of peduncle slightly separated from fruit base as also shown on >>>>>>>> page 53 >>>>>>>> of my book. This is one aspect you can perhaps sort out before next >>>>>>>> printing of my book. I have depicted both types of fruits in my book. >>>>>>>> Two >>>>>>>> things that kept me away from Cucucurbita pepo are first leaves not >>>>>>>> lobed >>>>>>>> (All plants of C. pepo I have seen in California including Zucchini >>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>> is now grown in India have deeply lobed leaves). Besides Book >>>>>>>> Vegetable >>>>>>>> Crops by Balakrishnan mentions only chapan kadu as member of C. pepo >>>>>>>> cultivated in India. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Perhaps you have a very challenging assignment. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>>>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>>>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>>>>> http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ >>>>>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 9:56 AM, surajit koley < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Good morning Sir >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Attaching photographs male & female flower, fruit, leaves, sepals, >>>>>>>>> petiole, peduncle/pedicel. Leaf stalk is prickly, petiole sometimes >>>>>>>>> longer >>>>>>>>> than lamina. Petiole odorous but not intense. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> surajit >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 10:26 PM, surajit koley < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sir, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I am attaching records from Dr. Prain, Dr. Haines, FBI & FI. It >>>>>>>>>> is interesting to not that while Dr. Haines thinks *C. melopepo* L. >>>>>>>>>> is synonymous with *C. pepo* DC, Dr, Prain & Dr. Hooker think >>>>>>>>>> otherwise. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The leaves (not photographed yet) of this plant are harsh, and >>>>>>>>>> the entire plant is somewhat prickly. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *C. pepo* DC >>>>>>>>>> *C. pepo* Willd. iv. 609 *C. moshcata* Duchesne >>>>>>>>>> *C. melopepo.* Willd. iv. 610. *C. maxima* Duchesne Prain >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> rigid, pungent hairs on the beneath of petiole; leaves deeply >>>>>>>>>> five lobed; >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> calyx lobes narrow subulate leaf stalk hairy all over, but not >>>>>>>>>> pungent or rigid hair; >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> calyx lobes broad spathulate, leafy >>>>>>>>>> leaf stalk hairy all over, but not pungent or rigid hair; >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> calyx lobes narrow-subulate Haines leaves harsh, rigid, acute >>>>>>>>>> lobed; >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> peduncles sulcate; >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> corolla narrowed at base, with erect lobes leaves soft, >>>>>>>>>> indumentum fine & soft; >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> peduncle pentagonal, >>>>>>>>>> expanded below the fruit; >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> sepals often foliaceous leaves harsh, rigid, rounded lobed; >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> peduncle not sulcate; >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> corolla lobes curved outwards FBI prickly rigid hair on the >>>>>>>>>> beneath of the petiole; >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> peduncle woody, strongly grooved; >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> hairs of the petiole not pungent; >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ---------------- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> calyx segments spathulate or foliaceous hairs of the petiole not >>>>>>>>>> pungent; >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> peduncle stout corky, striated, not grooved; >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> calyx segments lanceolate-linear FI fruit sub-cylindric, both >>>>>>>>>> ends obtuse, suface very even fruit roundish, smooth, torulose >>>>>>>>>> ----------- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It is very confusing. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> surajit >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Gurcharan Singh < >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Surajit ji >>>>>>>>>>> This fruit had confused me a lot, initially I had also thought >>>>>>>>>>> it to be C. pepo, but after I saw some older fruits, I noticed >>>>>>>>>>> features of >>>>>>>>>>> C. moschata. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>>>>>>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>>>>>>>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>>>>>>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>>>>>>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ >>>>>>>>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 9:33 PM, surajit koley < >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This one is growing on the roof of our storeroom. It seems to >>>>>>>>>>>> be the *Cucurbita pepo >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/indiantreepix/mQuQIkIuzns>*, >>>>>>>>>>>> but is it *C. pepo* L.? >>>>>>>>>>>> Both in "Bengal Plants" and in Flora of British India it had >>>>>>>>>>>> been cited as *C. pepo* DC. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at >>>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit >>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. 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