Dear Dr Singh I have not seen a copy of the description of Geranium clarkei nor have a copy of his book on Hardy Geraniums (the reason he had 'Hardy' in the title is that because in the UK gardeners often include non-hardy Pelargoniums, which interestingly often appear in window boxes in front of Swiss chalets but presumably, as in my country are brought inside to over-winter in a frost-free place, as well as true Geraniums). There is a Hardy Geranium Group of the UK Hardy Plant Society - I have lectured at their AGM on two occasions about Himalayan geraniums. Would be most useful if anyone who has a copy (or access to one) of Yeo's description of Geranium clarkei could sent me a copy. This seems to have been published in 'Hardy Geraniums' (1985). Meanwhile, see: http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/getImage.do?imageBarcode=K000729513 which is the Holotype collected by Clarke in Kashmir at 'Harpoor' 2400m. I note Yeo had previously determined this as Geranium pratense 'Kashmir Form' -was this the same as Geranium pratense susbp. stewartianum? And what you understood to be Geranium pratense in Kashmir? I note that the 'Assessment of Geranium Diversity...' you sent a link to includes G.clarkei but provides no synoyms. It includesGeranium himalayaense with G.pratense sensu FBI as a synonym but not G,pratense. I have some images of what is now known in cultivation as G.clarkei 'Kashmir White' which I can find and post plus a form of G,pratensegrowing wild in the UK, which I shall also post for comparison purposes. Also took images of what I understand to be G.himalayense, growing in the garden here, still in flower (just) which I photographed at the same time as the images I posted yesterday of Geranium wallichianum. In the latter case, I can post a dozen or so images, showing the range of characteristics, which will be helpful. In the mean-time, I draw your attention to cultivated forms of G.clarkei 'Kashmir white' (bearing in mind that not all images on the internet of this cultivar, other cultivated varieties belonging to all genera and species of all genera are correctly identified, indeed many are not and geraniums are prone to hybridise, which complicates matters further and this happens not just accidentally due to bees but actively due to gardeners deliberately crossing them): https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22Geranium+clarkei%22&tbm=isch&gws_rd=ssl#gws_rd=ssl&imgrc=4e_uKDlz4p_VKM%3A ;https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22Geranium+clarkei%22&tbm=isch&gws_rd=ssl#gws_rd=ssl&imgrc=RmOIRJDoz76QcM%3A ;https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22Geranium+clarkei%22&tbm=isch&gws_rd=ssl#gws_rd=ssl&imgrc=7A2LE_887M917M%3A these look OK to me. And there is G.clarkei 'Kashmir Purple' see: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22Geranium+clarkei%22&tbm=isch&gws_rd=ssl#gws_rd=ssl&imgrc=RG65D9_9X7h8JM%3A
Best Wishes, Chris Chadwell 81 Parlaunt Road SLOUGH SL3 8BE UK www.shpa.org.uk From: Gurcharan Singh <singh...@gmail.com> To: J.M. Garg <jmga...@gmail.com> Cc: C CHADWELL <chrischadwell...@btinternet.com>; efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2016, 4:49 Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:257121] Re: Geranium pratense from Kashmir Dear Dr Chadwell. I have photographed this species well in Kashmir. Do let me know if you want any enlarged portion for clear understanding. Dr. Gurcharan SinghRetired Associate Professor SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ On Mon, Nov 21, 2016 at 5:34 PM, J.M. Garg <jmga...@gmail.com> wrote: Thanks, Chadwell ji On 19 Nov 2016 7:20 pm, "chrischadwell261@btinternet. com" <chrischadwell261@btinternet. com> wrote: I currently cannotput a firm name on this - shall comment further in due course. I do consider it is part of the G.collinum-pratense-himalayens ealliance (see below) but definitely not with what I understand to be G.himalayense from Ladakh. I do have some images of Geranium pratense taken in the UK earlier this year which it might be worthwhile me posting for comparison purposes - accepting that Nasir recognised subspecies stewartianum. Let me try to explain. In the Notes Yeo supplied me, he drawsattention to the problematical G.collinum-pratense-himalayens e alliance. He considered this was particularly critical in the NW Himalaya with highquality pressed specimens needed (nowadays these can be supplemented andsometimes replaced by high quality digital images (provided the advice givenbelow is followed). This alliance has pink to blue flowers (sometimeswhite) in which the stamen-tip and stigmas are never blackish-purple... I consider it will be helpful for keen photographers, willing to make anadditional effort, to know which parts of Geranium to photograph. Having images of such parts of each geranium will greatly aid identificationand enhance our understanding of the genus in the Himalaya - and perhaps youcan help with the locating and identification of a species new-to-science! PHOTOGRAPHING GERANIUMS: IF only the firstone or two flowers have come out don't bother to collect as the form ofinflorescence will not be evident. The rootstock is important; get enough to showwhether compact or creeping, or annual. You can photograph the base ofthe plant which should provide this information. Clearly, one requirespermission from the authorities to uproot a plant. There is still a need and indeed role for the collection ofpressed specimens for herbaria in India but that is primarily the domain ofstaff of botanic gardens/ institutions. In the early stages of flowering look out forthe best-developed unripe fruits available. If fruit is ripe try to include both dehiscedand undehisced states. If the fruits are falling with the seedsinside them, collect some (many geraniums disperse their seed explosively butsome seed is often retained). Include some loose petals whenpressing (detach if necessary). Expose stamens to show filament shape andhairs by taking 2 or 3 sepals off a flower from which petals have recently dropped. Smoothing out one or two leaves andflowers as you close the press may be helpful; a few separately pressed basaland lower/middle stem leaves are often useful. Wilted specimens can be verymisleading. Notes should be taken as to flowerposture, colour and patterning of petals, colour of stigmas, anthers and distalparts of filaments (not necessary if your photos show these). And don't forget to ensure thestipules are clearly shown - something that would have been obviously inpressed specimens, so not mentioned above by Yeo. On Thursday, November 22, 2012 at 12:11:55 AM UTC, Gurcharan Singh wrote: Geranium pratense L., Sp. Pl. 2: 681. 1753. A species very similar in appearance to G. wallichianum but very easily differentiated by very narrow linear stipules, 5-7 lobed leaves more deeply divided, each segment narrower, narrowest towards tip and gradually broader towards base with 6-13 acutish lobes, and narrowed suddenly below the lowest pairs of lobes. the species is now considerd closer to G. himalense but latter has smaller leaves, broader segments with lobes concentrated in upper with 5-7 lobes, mostly lobed again.Flora of Pakistan considers Himalayan form as subsp. stewartianum, but this taxon is not accepted in light of variation within the species.Photographed from Gulmarg, kashmir. -- Dr. Gurcharan SinghRetired Associate Professor SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089http://www.gurcharanfamily.com / http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg 45/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepix+unsubscribe@goog legroups.com. To post to this group, send email to indiantreepix@googlegroups.com . Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/grou p/indiantreepix. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/op tout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepix+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send an email to indiantreepix@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.