Thanks, Rawat ji On 25 Nov 2016 5:37 pm, "D.S Rawat" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Well said Chadwell Ji. > Working at higher elevations in the Himalaya is quite difficult. For the > last 25 years I have also realized the same. But my visits to higher > elevation (maximum up to ca. 5500mi in Gangotri area of Uttarakhand) most > of the time were self financed an ill prepared. > The results are obvious that I still do not recognize many of the alpine > plants. > One should be very clear about the habitats of plants when surveying the > plants. If a plant collector do not look below shady areas under a boulder > Parietaria debilis can not be seen or collected. at least in Uttarakhand. > Some of the plants are so tiny that can not be noticed if someone is > standing within 1 m. Saxifraga minutissima is one with plants as large as > only 1 cm with greenish flowers and the plant is similar to mosses around > it. There are many which will appear in redlists because the plant > collector were not aware of their habitats. > > DSRawat Pantnagar > > > > On Thursday, November 24, 2016 at 11:57:41 PM UTC+5:30, > [email protected] wrote: >> >> I am supportive of the sound comments of Dr Rawat. >> >> One cannot rely upon records from herbaria alone. Active field botanists >> who can reliably identify the plants they encounter during >> surveys are essential. The relative presence or not of specimens of >> particular species collected since Indian Independence cf. before >> may just be a reflection of how often and whom, botanises in the higher >> mountains..... >> >> Botanists exhibit varying levels of field skills and ability to cope with >> the rigours of exploring for plants in the mountains and this will impact >> on what is found. Not everyone is keen to leave the office or herbarium, >> especially if those at a higher level do not encourage field botany or >> recognise its importance. >> >> *As a young botanist and team-leader of a survey of riverside vegetation >> in Wales 34 years ago (where we surveyed 500km stretches of river-bank) >> comparisons for my team of surveyors were made on certain stretches i.e. we >> all surveyed the same stretch. None of us spotted every species but, >> thankfully, I found the most. Different field workers are more observant >> than others. The project compared different stretches of river, assessing >> the richness on the basis of total number of plant species and their >> rarity. Comparisons I instigated showed that much depended on whom did the >> surveying, which those who set up these surveys had not appreciated. The >> results were published in a paper in the Journal of Biological >> Conservation.* >> >> It is challenging to botanise methodically and search carefully, >> especially in difficult terrain, not least at higher altitudes. Not >> everyone can scramble about amongst rocks and boulders or steep >> slopes/cliffs. >> >> I recollect the first time I reached the Baralacha La (pass) between >> Lahoul and Rupshu at some 4800m. It was a bright sunny day in 1991. I was >> using slide film in those days and KNEW the in-camera light metering would >> be confused by the conditions such that if I just took pictures the usual >> way the exposure would be wrong. I KNEW I needed to do what was called >> "bracketing" the exposure but my head was light from the high elevation and >> shortage of oxygen and could not make myself do it..... >> >> Similarly, I visited Ladakh just a few years ago and reached (again by >> vehicle) Chang La (over 5000m) not too far from Leh. I was OK (albeit >> slow) when exploring over the pass but during a later stop, struggled even >> to move! >> >> If someone like myself who is robust, spends time acclimatizing and >> enjoys being in the mountains, finds it hard-going (at times) then I am >> sure others do as well. *Not everyone is comfortable in mountains or >> copes with the altitude or can safely negotiate such terrain (in which case >> they become a liability).* >> >> *It MUST be stressed that a true picture of a region's flora cannot be >> found solely relying upon what grows within a few metres or at most a few >> hundred metres, of a road or track (certain cosmopolitan weeds may occur >> disproportionately in such places whilst some species will be missed >> altogether). It is ESSENTIAL to both trek into the mountains* and >> scramble amongst the rocks and boulders on steep slopes. >> >> The Czech plant ecologists who have studied the ecology of such plants as >> Thylacospermum caespitsoum at the upper limits of flowering plants in >> Ladakh are to be commended. They discovered new species and a new genus of >> flowering plant. I have not been to such places in Ladakh >> @ 5500-6000m! I do not know of too many Indian botanists who have. *It >> is IMPOSSIBLE to accurately assess the rarity or abundance of species which >> grow amongst rocks and boulders @ 4-5000m e,g. unless one surveys intensely >> in such habitats. This has not been happening, let alone 5000m+ (although >> species are few and far between at such extremes).* >> >> I have been lecturing about my travels in the Himalaya to clubs & >> societies in the UK for more than 30 years. Audiences are often inspired >> by the images I show. When speaking on Ladakh e.g., I stress that typical >> reaction of Westerners to such altitudes and conditions are lethargy, >> depression and a wish to go home at the earliest opportunity - not helped >> by a raking cough caused by the dry air! And many a mountain 'road' is >> not for the faint-hearted. >> >> I myself have suffered from serious gastro-intestinal difficulties (akin >> to food poisoning) on numerous occasions and had to return back to the UK >> prematurely on my first expedition. I wish I had known on my early >> expeditions a quick solution (all such episodes were cleared up within 24 >> hours in more recent years - the 'cure' being told me by a UK doctor >> working in India). *Must have been mad to continue..... I am reminded >> of the song "Mad Dogs and Englishmen go out in the Noon Day sun..."* >> >> Best Wishes, >> >> >> Chris Chadwell >> >> >> 81 Parlaunt Road >> SLOUGH >> SL3 8BE >> UK >> >> www.shpa.org.uk >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* D.S Rawat <[email protected]> >> *To:* J.M. Garg <[email protected]> >> *Cc:* C CHADWELL <[email protected]>; efloraofindia < >> [email protected]> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, 8 November 2016, 4:40 >> *Subject:* Re: [efloraofindia:256025] Re: Plumbaginaceae, Primulaceae & >> Myrsinaceae Fortnight 1-14June2014: Primula minutissima from >> Uttarakhand_DSR_1 >> >> The major reason for including species in Red Data Book of Indian Plants >> (3 vols published by Botanical Survey of India in 1987,88,90 and edited by >> Nayar & Sastry) and later into other such documents like 1997 IUCN Redlist >> of Threatened Plants (Rao et al. 2003) was herbarium studies in Indian >> herbaria. Species not collected since long or less collected were also >> included in list of red taxa in addition to species facing exploitation for >> various purposes. >> As said by Chadwell Ji, I also believe that the status of these species >> need to be reviewed in light of current IUCN criteria and extensive field >> work in the probable localities all along their distribution range. >> Do we have resources, dedicated field workers ready to explore extremely >> difficult terrains, and earnest desire to do so are the issues related to >> this aspect of declaring plants Endangered/ Rare / Extinct. >> >> DSRawat Pantnagar >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> ----------------- >> Dr D.S. Rawat >> Department of Biological Sciences, G.B. Pant University of Agriculture & >> Technology Pantnagar-263 145 Uttarakhand, INDIA >> *eflorapantnagar* <https://sites.google.com/site/eflorapantnagar/home> >> displaying wild flora of Pantnagar >> >> On Tue, Nov 8, 2016 at 9:27 AM, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Thanks, Chadwell ji >> >> On 8 Nov 2016 8:37 am, "chrischadwell261@btinternet. com >> <[email protected]>" <chrischadwell261@btinternet. com >> <[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> I think this must be *P.minutissima*. Cannot think which other species >> it can be. It is a nonsense (as with Saxifraga jacquemontiana) to suggest >> this plant is Endangered. It is no such thing. I repeat my comment that I >> am at a lost to know how species are included in the Red List of Threatened >> Vascular Plants in India (the only reason it is in the IUCN Red List of >> Threatened Plants is because they accepted what was submitted - they are in >> no position to check, just as the species accepted onto Appendices for >> CITES are accepted on no actual evidence as those from the Indian Himalaya >> are *not* 'Rare & Endangered'. How can botanists who spend so little >> time in the field possibly know what is rare let alone endangered. You do >> not discover this from an office!. >> >> As Primula minutissima grows well in suitable habitat in Ladakh (I have >> seen it in several places including irrigation channels), also in the >> Kashmir Valley, Kulu Valley and know of it from Baspa Valley, Kinnuar, >> where it is flourishing. 'Flowers of Himalaya' say stony slopes in areas >> near to the Tibetan border @ 3600-5200m. I don't think the authors of these >> 'Red Lists' have spent much time on high passes in the borderlands of Tibet >> to know the status of populations of this plant, anymore than they know >> about colonies of Saxifraga jacquemontiana - neither of which is under any >> threat whatsoever. >> >> *But what about the species what are GENUINELY rare & endangered.... This >> is a seriously wrong situation which needs addressing at the highest levels >> nationally and internationally.... Claims of rarity MUST be based upon >> reliable and accurate information. How many botanists in India have >> regularly botanised and surveyed in the high mountains? And of these, how >> many can recognise, whilst in those mountains, such species as >> P.minutissima and Saxifraga jacquemontiana. I have to an extent and can >> recognise them. So perhaps my reliable evidence is worth listening to.* >> >> >> On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 at 8:13:00 AM UTC+1, D.S Rawat wrote: >> >> *Primula minutissima* Jacq. ex Duby (Primulaceae) is a tiny carpet >> forming herb in alpine zones of Western Himalaya. It is listed in 1997 >> IUCN Red List of Threatened Plants and in Red List of Threatened >> Vascular Plant Species in India (Rao *et al.* 2003). >> Though mentioned as *Endangered*, it requires review of status since in >> the above document it is shown growing only in Kashmir. >> This photograph is taken from Kedarnath area (Uttarakhand) but >> unfortunately in late season (October) thus have no flowers. The rosettes >> of the plants are visible with preformed inflorescence bud in the center of >> rosette. >> It is an addition to eFI database, I hope. >> >> Dr D.S.Rawat >> Department of Biological Sciences, G.B. Pant University of Agriculture & >> Technology Pantnagar-263 145 Uttarakhand, INDIA >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "efloraofindia" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to indiantreepix+unsubscribe@goog legroups.com >> <[email protected]>. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] . >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/grou p/indiantreepix >> <https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix>. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/op tout >> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >> >> >> >> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send an email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. 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