Thanks, Chadwell ji On 20 Dec 2016 8:16 p.m., "C CHADWELL" <chrischadwell...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Thanks again Dr Kumar for additional information. > > I consider it most useful to begin including ecological information as to > the habitats of species in floras > including associated species (provided these have been correctly > identified). I have minimal knowledge > of orchids - Orchidaceae really is JUST ANOTHER plant family to me, so am > not referring to an example > from this family but I have noticed a habit of listing companion species > for a plant which occurs the full > length of the Himalaya from say the Eastern Himalaya, thinking this > applies in the West as well, when the > companion species found in the East may not grow..... One has to be > cautious about extrapolating especially > from very few examples. It may be that the examples seen are atypical. > > But should be encouraged. Checklists and floras that have almost > exclusively taxonomic and nomenclatural > information can be of LIMITED USE to most people. > > In the UK, we divided the country up into Counties. The most recent > 'Flora of Berkshire' e.g. was compiled > by a plant ecologist (immensely knowledgeable) which contains a wealth of > associated information including > entomological as to which species of plants are food plants or pollinated > by certain insects etc. > > To me this BRINGS the flora alive. As you know better than I, orchids > often exist very much "in association" > (as do all plants to a lesser or greater extent) with other plants and > MICROORGANISMS. > > Bistorta affinis is an abundant plant in many places in the mountains > incl. on Aphawat in Kashmir. Danthonia > cachemyriana was found to be common in rock crevices in Kashmir by Stewart@ > 2600-4000m. > > IF species belonging to other genera or families can be recognised in the > field they can help "track down" > colonies of a species especially those less conspicuous when not in flower > - which is the case for many > terrestrial orchids. No doubt in the Himalaya as for the UK colonies > fluctuate from year-to-year. > > *I AM SURE YOU WOULD ENDORSE THE WARNING ABOUT PHOTOGRAPHING TERRESTRAL > ORCHIDS* > *(we don't have epiphytic ones in the UK). CARE MUST BE TAKEN NOT TO > DAMAGE/TREAD ON/SQUASH* > *NON-FLOWERING, YOUNGER SPECIMENS GROWING NEAR TO THE SPECIMEN IN FLOWER > ONE MAY* > *WISH TO PHOTOGRAPH.* > > Yes, we must always be BRACING ourselves for taxonomic and nomenclatural > changes - *and* > *differences of interpretation/opinion....* > > *I must comment that ALL we can say, with all due respect, at this stage, > because the Himalaya is so vast and so little explored, * > *is that a particular species has been RARELY observed. IT MIGHT indeed > be genuinely RARE and PROBABLY is, for **Androcorys pugionformis** but > some species **of all sorts of genera and families are often > over-looked. This species certainly cannot be described* > *as common, locally or otherwise.* > > *Even in the UK which is smaller and has had literally thousands of > botanists exploring for centuries, we do not fully* > *know the distribution well of all species.* > > After all, I spotted what seems to be Herminium monorchis at the edge of > Khelanmarg on a single, brief visit, yet this species was > not mentioned in 'Plants of Gulmarg' (1984) so had not been observed by > local botanists for decades and this is a highly accessible > location, visited by many. There are lots of parts of Kashmir seldom > visited by botanists. *To be fair, I could return to the same spot* > *and not find 'Musk Orchid' in flower or indeed any evidence of > above-ground foliage.* > > I have only seen a few species of orchid in the UK despite having been an > active field botanist in the early 1980s. Unless one visits suitable > habitat one RARELY comes across them - SOME species are RARE but not all of > them by any means. This year I photographed (for the first time) > Dactylorhiza fuchsia after being shown a colony at the non-flowering > stage. This orchid is LOCALLY common on chalk. It is not found anywhere > near to where I live and normally walk. See: > https://sites.google.com/a/shpa.org.uk/main/uk-travel-blog-2015-16 > > > > > > Best Wishes, > > > Chris Chadwell > > > 81 Parlaunt Road > SLOUGH > SL3 8BE > UK > > www.shpa.org.uk > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Pankaj Kumar <sahanipan...@gmail.com> > *To:* J.M. Garg <jmga...@gmail.com>; C CHADWELL < > chrischadwell...@btinternet.com>; efloraofindia < > indiantreepix@googlegroups.com> > *Sent:* Tuesday, 20 December 2016, 4:54 > *Subject:* Re: [efloraofindia:259591] Re: Is this Herminium monorchis > 'Musk Orchid' photographed on Khelanmarg? > > Andocorys pugionformis has been reported from Jammu and Kashmir, Himachal > Pradesh, Uttarakhand (Garhwal), Nepal, India (Sikkim, Arunachal Pradesh), > Bhutan, Tibet and China.from elevation above 3000m (to be precise from 2700 > - 5000 m). There had been recent records from Nepal and Uttarakhand (around > 2004) > Just for information, there is a group in China who are revising the genus > and hence be ready for some major changes again. I assume they will put > everything back into Herminium along with some Platanthera too. > Habitat (copied from J.S.Jalal D.Sc thesis (2011): Occurs in alpine > meadows between 3600 and 4000m and prefers to grow in exposed meadows with > 2-3 individuals together with association of Danthonia cachemyriana Jaub. & > Spach, Bistorata affinis (D.Don) Greene, grasses, ferns and other alpine > herbs. This is a very rare species in the west Himalaya and due to grazing > pressures and other biotic activities in its natural habitat; this species > seems to be on > the verge of extinction. > > On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 10:13 AM, J.M. Garg <jmga...@gmail.com> wrote: > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: "chrischadwell261@btinternet. com <chrischadwell...@btinternet.com>" > <chrischadwell261@btinternet. com <chrischadwell...@btinternet.com>> > Date: 20 Dec 2016 6:44 a.m. > Subject: [efloraofindia:259591] Re: Is this Herminium monorchis 'Musk > Orchid' photographed on Khelanmarg? > To: "efloraofindia" <indiantreepix@googlegroups. com > <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>> > Cc: <chrischadwell261@btinternet. com <chrischadwell...@btinternet.com>> > > Thanks Dr Kumar. > > Can you tell us of any recent records of *Androcorys pugionformis (Lindl. > ex Hook.f.) K.Y.Lang *in Kashmir or indeed along the Himalaya as a whole? > > On Sunday, December 18, 2016 at 5:08:59 AM UTC, JM Garg wrote: > > Thanks, Chadwell ji. > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: *C CHADWELL* <chrischa...@btinternet.com> > Date: 18 December 2016 at 03:40 > Subject: Is this Herminium monorchis 'Musk Orchid' photographed on > Khelanmarg? > To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com> > > > I began by thinking that it would be worthwhile to have images of > Herminium monorchis > taken in the NW Himalaya to add to those posted from Uttarakhand *and > that this post would* > *be quick and straightforward, however, it has not worked out that way but > always useful* > *to check things - even though rather time-consuming. It is all-too-easy > to casually assume* > *a plant belongs to a well-known species without ever examining it > closely, so you can be* > *aware of similar ones or spot differences/misidentifications of that > species.* > > *I have e.g. never looked at Herminium monorchis with a hand-lens @ x10 or > x20 magnification.* > > *I must admit that after ALWAYS wearing and regularly using a hand lens in > the UK and on my* > *early expeditions to the Himalaya, I used one less and less - in part > because seldom is such detail* > *available/used in local floras.* > > I photographed on my most recent visit to Kashmir an orchid at the edge of > Khelanmarg, which I > took to be Herminium monorchis. > > See images 1-5 below. > > Not being an orchid specialist, I have never taken much notice of them, > unlike some who make a > special effort to track down every member of Orchidaceae they can. > > Having complex flowers, those with smaller-sized flowers require > close-inspection. > > I first came across this orchid beside the Sind River at Sonamarg during > the Kashmir Botanical Expedition > of 1983. It was also found along irrigation channels of cultivated fields > in Miyah Nullah whilst leading > botanical tours in Lahoul in the mid-1980s. > > Flowers of the Himalaya record it in forests and marshy ground in drier > areas @ 3000-4300m from Pakistan > to Central Nepal, Tibet, China, N.Asia, Europe. > > Stewart recorded it from N.Pakistan incl. Baltistan and Ladakh @ > 2400-4200m. > > However, 'Plants of Gulmarg' by Naqshi, Singh & Koul (1984) do not record > Herminium monorchis *but do* > *list Herminium pugioniforme* on the basis of a 19th Century record by > Aitchison - as does Stewart, who found > it near Mt. Kolahoi in the Upper Lidder Valley. None of the other orchids > they list seem likely. > > *So, had I mistaken what I though was H.monorchis for H.pugionforme, which > I had never heard of, or* > *the Musk Orchid had been missed on Khelanmarg?* > > *It seems that H.pugioniforme is now Androcorys pugionformis (Lindl. ex > Hook.f.) K.Y.Lang, see:* > > > http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/ge tImage.do?imageBarcode=K000387 532 > <http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/getImage.do?imageBarcode=K000387532> - *it > is impossible to say much on the* > *low resolution image of this pressed specimen at Kew (at least to my eye, > unfamiliar with orchids).* > > *However, there are a number of close-up images:* > > https://www.google.co.uk/searc h?q=%22Androcorys+pugioniformi > s%22&tbm=isch&gws_rd=ssl#gws_r d=ssl&imgrc=JkmWSuh6HdVErM%3A > <https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22Androcorys+pugioniformis%22&tbm=isch&gws_rd=ssl#gws_rd=ssl&imgrc=JkmWSuh6HdVErM%3A> > . > > *My initial impressions are that Herminium monorchis seems more likely but > I would welcome the thoughts of others?* > > > Best Wishes, > > > Chris Chadwell > > > 81 Parlaunt Road > SLOUGH > SL3 8BEs > UK > > www.shpa.org.uk > > > > > > > > -- > With regards, > J.M.Garg > 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> > Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia > <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. > For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, > please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group > <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in the > world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or Efloraofindia > website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species > database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images). > The whole world uses my Image Resource > <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a > thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. > (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as > per Creative Commons license attached with each image. > Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of > India'. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "efloraofindia" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to indiantreepix+unsubscribe@goog legroups.com > <indiantreepix+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to indiantreepix@googlegroups.com . > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/grou p/indiantreepix > <https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/op tout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > > > > > -- > ************************************************************ > ********************************************************** > *Pankaj Kumar*, Ph.D. > *IUCN-SSC Orchid Specialist Group Asia* > > *Office*: > > Conservation Officer > > Orchid Conservation Section > > Flora Conservation Department > > Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation > Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. > > *Residence*: > House no. 39, 2nd Floor, Shui Wo Tsuen > Lam Tsuen, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. > *email*: pku...@kfbg.org; sahanipan...@gmail.com > *Phone*: +852 2483 7128 (office - 8:30am to 5:00pm); +852 9436 6251 > (mobile); *Fax*: +852 2483 7194 > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. 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