Thankyou Sir for the clarifications. So I take it that the keys in the flora mentioning the red cyathia are incorect or incomplete which led me to seek these clarifications.
regards, Rashida. On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 10:14 PM, Gurcharan Singh <singh...@gmail.com>wrote: > Rashida ji > Please realise that in E. nerifolia the spines are borne on spirally > arranged ribbed, whereas in both E. nivulia and E caducifolia the stem is > neither ribbed, angled or winged. In E. caducifolia the cyathia are yellow > in flower, reddish in fruit. Please see the following link > > http://www.cactuspro.com/encyclo/Euphorbia/caducifolia > > <http://www.cactuspro.com/encyclo/Euphorbia/caducifolia> > -- > Dr. Gurcharan Singh > Retired Associate Professor > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 > http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ > > On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 10:05 PM, Gurcharan Singh <singh...@gmail.com>wrote: > >> You are right Pankaj ji >> Our idea is to develop keys which can be used by common members without >> much knowledge of floral structure. Fortunately it helps in Euphorbia which >> have little cyathial diversity except for number of glands and gland >> appendages. >> >> -- >> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >> Retired Associate Professor >> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >> >> On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 9:48 PM, Pankaj Kumar >> <sahanipan...@gmail.com>wrote: >> >>> My key was deliberatey based on non floral characters, except for use of >>> bracts at one branch. It can be used without even touching the plant. But >>> yes, the usage of floral characters is always advisable. >>> Pankaj >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 9:41 PM, Gurcharan Singh <singh...@gmail.com>wrote: >>> >>>> Samir ji >>>> Please look at the second photograph in your post. If they are the same >>>> plant, you can clearly see spirally arranged spines in the second >>>> photograph >>>> even from a distance. They are never so in E. caducifolia. As for the >>>> colour >>>> observe the following plant of E. caducifolia >>>> >>>> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Euphorbia_caducifolia2_ies.jpg >>>> >>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Euphorbia_caducifolia2_ies.jpg> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>> >>>> On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 9:35 PM, Samir Mehta >>>> <samirmeht...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>> >>>>> 'Shrub wiithout trunk with branches arising from base, smaller >>>>> leaves (3-8 cm long) and longer spines 0.5-1 cm.............E >>>>> caducifolia >>>>> >>>>> Trunk absent, place of attachment of spines raised ........E. >>>>> caducifolia' >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Gurcharan ji, >>>>> >>>>> Pankaj ji's and your (relevant portion of the) keys, for the >>>>> identification of E. cadufolia are presented above and my relevant >>>>> observations below: >>>>> >>>>> 1) the spines on the image I posted as E. cadufolia were definitely >>>>> >0.5 cm, closer to 1cm. >>>>> 2) the place of attachment of spines is raised - no doubt on that >>>>> score. >>>>> >>>>> The two above observations together with Rashida ji's point on color >>>>> of cyathia make a compelling case for my post to be labeled E. >>>>> cadufolia. May I request you to reassess your doubts in the matter. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> >>>>> Samir >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mar 11, 8:46 pm, Gurcharan Singh <singh...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> > Rashida ji >>>>> > Please clarify where you want to use radical leaves or not. All >>>>> leaves >>>>> > radical means there is no stem at all and a leafless scape would >>>>> arise at >>>>> > the time of flowering to carry the inflorescence up. On the other >>>>> hand if >>>>> > all leaves are not radical means there would be some radical (basal) >>>>> leaves >>>>> > and then some leaves on the aerial stem. >>>>> > >>>>> > -- >>>>> > Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>> > Retired Associate Professor >>>>> > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>> > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>> > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>>> > >>>>> > On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 8:55 PM, Rashida Atthar < >>>>> atthar.rash...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > > Sir, my clarification is for - the leaves all radical and leaves >>>>> not all >>>>> > > radical - should it be be a key or not . >>>>> > >>>>> > > Sir, also request you to have a relook at Samir ji's post and the >>>>> colour >>>>> > > of the cyathia I think red should be E. caducifolia and green >>>>> should be >>>>> > > E. neriifolia. Sorry, but I feel omission of important floral >>>>> elements >>>>> > > will lead to some confusion in the keys. Hope this is taken as >>>>> constructive >>>>> > > criticism! >>>>> > >>>>> > > regards, >>>>> > > Rashida. >>>>> > > On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 8:40 PM, Gurcharan Singh < >>>>> singh...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > >> Rashida ji >>>>> > >> Stem is developed in both. In practice in shrubs the branches >>>>> arising from >>>>> > >> base are known as stems only. The difference is of common stem >>>>> better known >>>>> > >> as trunk. In trees we have a trunk which is single for some >>>>> distance after >>>>> > >> which the branches arise (E. nivulia and others). In Shrubs there >>>>> is no >>>>> > >> trunk and individual branches (stems) arise from the base. >>>>> > >>>>> > >> -- >>>>> > >> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>> > >> Retired Associate Professor >>>>> > >> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>> > >> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>> > >> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>> > >>http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>>> > >>>>> > >> On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 8:35 PM, Gurcharan Singh < >>>>> singh...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> Thanks a lot Pankaj ji >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> Members can take help of both the keys. >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> -- >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>>> > >>> Retired Associate Professor >>>>> > >>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>>> > >>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>>> > >>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>>> > >>>http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 8:25 PM, Pankaj Kumar < >>>>> sahanipan...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> Stem without spines >>>>> > >>>> Leaves red/brown/reddish-brown …………………………........Euphorbia >>>>> > >>>> cotinifolia >>>>> > >>>> Leaves green or green with variegations >>>>> > >>>> Leaves usually present for short >>>>> > >>>> duration towards the terminal end of stem >>>>> ..……………......Euphorbia >>>>> > >>>> tirucallii >>>>> > >>>> Leaves present for longer duration >>>>> > >>>> not just confined to the terminal ends >>>>> > >>>> Leaves alternate scattered distichously >>>>> > >>>> …………............Euphorbia tithymaloides >>>>> > >>>> Leaves alternate, scattered spirally >>>>> > >>>> (not distichously atleast) >>>>> > >>>> Bracts uniformly coloured >>>>> > >>>> (yellow or red or white in colour) >>>>> …………………….......Euphorbia >>>>> > >>>> pulcherrima >>>>> > >>>> Bracts coloured but not completely >>>>> > >>>> Bracts red coloured towards >>>>> > >>>> the basal part ……………………………......………...Euphorbia >>>>> > >>>> heterophylla >>>>> > >>>> Bracts white coloured towards >>>>> > >>>> the basal part …………………………………....……...Euphorbia >>>>> > >>>> cyathophora >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> Stem with spines >>>>> > >>>> Stem red/brown/reddish-brown in colour, >>>>> > >>>> normally not more than 1.5cm thick ……………………….......Euphorbia >>>>> milii >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> (excluding polyploid hybrids) >>>>> > >>>> Stem green/white/greyish-green/variegated, >>>>> > >>>> normally more than 3cm thick >>>>> > >>>> Stem almost cylindric >>>>> > >>>> Trunk absent, place of attachment >>>>> > >>>> of spines raised ……………………………………..............Euphorbia >>>>> > >>>> caducifolia >>>>> > >>>> Trunk present, place of attachment >>>>> > >>>> of spines almost embedded atleast not raised >>>>> …………...Euphorbia >>>>> > >>>> nivulia >>>>> > >>>> Stem angular or winged >>>>> > >>>> Wings 3-4 >>>>> > >>>> Wings straight, sinuate or dentate >>>>> > >>>> Stem green without >>>>> > >>>> white bands >>>>> > >>>> …………………..............................…Euphorbia antiquorum >>>>> > >>>> Stem variegated with >>>>> > >>>> white or white bands >>>>> > >>>> between two wings >>>>> > >>>> …………..…......................…...Euphorbia lactea >>>>> > >>>> Wings spiral >>>>> ………………………........................…….Euphorbia >>>>> > >>>> tortilis >>>>> > >>>> Wings 5-6 >>>>> ……………………………......................…...….Euphorbia >>>>> > >>>> royleana >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> Varieties may be kept separately I assume. >>>>> > >>>> Key is 98% yours and I just added and deleted few things so even >>>>> less >>>>> > >>>> than 2% of my knowledge involved. >>>>> > >>>> Regards >>>>> > >>>> Pankaj >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> -- >>>>> > >>>> *********************************************** >>>>> > >>>> "TAXONOMISTS GETTING EXTINCT AND SPECIES DATA DEFICIENT !!" >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> Pankaj Kumar Ph.D. (Orchidaceae) >>>>> > >>>> Research Associate >>>>> > >>>> Greater Kailash Sacred Landscape Project >>>>> > >>>> Department of Habitat Ecology >>>>> > >>>> Wildlife Institute of India >>>>> > >>>> Post Box # 18 >>>>> > >>>> Dehradun - 248001, India >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> *********************************************** >>> "TAXONOMISTS GETTING EXTINCT AND SPECIES DATA DEFICIENT !!" >>> >>> >>> Pankaj Kumar Ph.D. (Orchidaceae) >>> Research Associate >>> Greater Kailash Sacred Landscape Project >>> Department of Habitat Ecology >>> Wildlife Institute of India >>> Post Box # 18 >>> Dehradun - 248001, India >>> >> >> >> >> > > >
