But this is not really much to support sutta < sūkta, since the regular Pāli form parallel to sūkta includes the glide -v-, as Skt ukta ~ Pāli vutta and similarly in other MIA languages, which all seem to preserve the initial v- of the verbal root *vac- (Pischel §337), despite the vowel change a > u before a labial (§104).
And anyway, Buddhaghosa here is offering multiple exegetical “etymologies” (an old technique beginning already in the Vedic brāhmaṇa-prose), which are alternative or mutually complementary. The last of the six offered here relies on the “thread” meaning, explained using two distinct analogies which, if anything about the author’s sense of the basic literal meaning of the term is to be inferred from that fact, would point rather to a stronger awareness of sutta as connected with threads: … suttasabhāgañ c’etaṃ yathā hi tacchakānaṃ suttaṃ pamāṇaṃ hoti evaṃ etam pi viññūnaṃ, yathā ca suttena saṅgahītāni pupphāni na vikirīyanti na viddhaṃsiyanti evam etena saṅgahītā atthā. The trans. of the whole passage: This Scripture shows, expresses, fructifies, Yields, guards the Good, and is unto the wise A plumb-line; therefore Sutta is its name. For it shows what is good for the good of self and others. It is well expressed to suit the wishes of the audience. It has been said that it fructifies the Good, as crops fructify their fruit; that it yields the Good as a cow yields milk; and that it well protects and guards the Good. It is a measure to the wise as the plumb-line is to carpenters. And just as flowers strung together are not scattered nor destroyed, so the Good strung together by it does not perish. Hence it has been said, to facilitate the study of the word-definition: This Scripture shows, expresses, fructifies, Yields, guards the Good, and is unto the wise A plumb-line; therefore Sutta is its name. (tr. Maung Tin, The Expositor, v. 1, PTE (1920), p. 24 Best, Tim _________________________________________ Timothy Lubin Jessie Ball duPont Professor of Religion and Adjunct Professor of Law 204 Tucker Hall Washington and Lee University Lexington, Virginia 24450 American Council of Learned Societies fellow, 2020–21 National Endowment for the Humanities fellow, 2020–21 https://lubin.academic.wlu.edu/<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flubin.academic.wlu.edu%2F&data=04%7C01%7CLubinT%40wlu.edu%7C118620c8eb3b4049237308d886c1df18%7Cd1a80622a99943e58eb67873905e939e%7C1%7C0%7C637407514521888642%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=KGZJIHllkEOJZN9s48rB6YkrExmYG1owecyuPn%2FuR%2Bg%3D&reserved=0> http://wlu.academia.edu/TimothyLubin<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwlu.academia.edu%2FTimothyLubin&data=04%7C01%7CLubinT%40wlu.edu%7C118620c8eb3b4049237308d886c1df18%7Cd1a80622a99943e58eb67873905e939e%7C1%7C0%7C637407514521888642%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=etrMzh0RHx8819v5PH6KeTgeHQpeNVqeSUP62IDVn9c%3D&reserved=0> https://ssrn.com/author=930949<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fssrn.com%2Fauthor%3D930949&data=04%7C01%7CLubinT%40wlu.edu%7C118620c8eb3b4049237308d886c1df18%7Cd1a80622a99943e58eb67873905e939e%7C1%7C0%7C637407514521888642%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=F9JfpSkLrSfrImfMeIXPIjpUIVYIYcwfbvm8dqcxedE%3D&reserved=0> https://dharma.hypotheses.org/people/lubin-timothy<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdharma.hypotheses.org%2Fpeople%2Flubin-timothy&data=04%7C01%7CLubinT%40wlu.edu%7C118620c8eb3b4049237308d886c1df18%7Cd1a80622a99943e58eb67873905e939e%7C1%7C0%7C637407514521898628%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=sncUovdIh9wA0ezo8n2xpYpllaMKMetH86tMA6Jtg9A%3D&reserved=0> From: INDOLOGY <[email protected]> on behalf of INDOLOGY <[email protected]> Reply-To: Rupert Gethin <[email protected]> Date: Monday, May 10, 2021 at 7:29 PM To: INDOLOGY <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] The Buddhist term sutta Oskar von Hinüber suggests here that the Theravāda tradition offers no support for a derivation of sutta from sūkta. (In der Theravāda-Überlieferung findet die Annahme, daß sutta- eigentlich sūkta- entspräche, nirgends eine Stütze, wie die lange Erörterung zu sutta-, As 19, 15–26 mit aller Deutlichkeit zeigt.) However, the Atthasālini passage cited here (= Sp I 19 = Sv I 17) quotes and explains a mnemonic verse that offers 6 ways of taking sutta; the second of these is precisely sūkta (Pali suvutta): "As revealing benefits, as well spoken (suvutta), as productive, as yielding, as sheltering well, as a universal measuring cord, it is called sutta.” "For a sutta reveals various benefits for ourselves and others. And in it these benefits are spoken well (suvutta) since they are spoken in accordance with the disposition of those who are to be trained …" atthānaṃ sūcanato suvuttato savanato ’tha sūdanato | suttāṇā suttasabhāgato ca suttan ti akkhātaṃ || taṃ hi attatthaparatthādibhede atthe sūceti. suvuttā c’ ettha atthā veneyyajjhāsayānulomena vuttattā ... Rupert Gethin -- Rupert Gethin Professor of Buddhist Studies University of Bristol Department of Religion and Theology 3 Woodland Road ● Bristol BS8 1TB ● UK Email: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> On 10 May 2021, at 21:13, Lubin, Tim <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Oskar von Hinüber (1994: “Die Neun Aṅgas,” p. 132) approvingly cites Mayrhofer’s judgment (EWA III/ 492) that the derivation from sūkta is “entbehrlich”; he cites a long discussion of the term in Buddhaghosa’s Atthasālinī 19.15–26 as evidence against it. Tim Lubin From: INDOLOGY <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> on behalf of INDOLOGY <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Reply-To: Andrew Ollett <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Date: Monday, May 10, 2021 at 3:28 PM To: Jim Ryan <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Cc: INDOLOGY <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] The Buddhist term sutta Dear Jim, See Max Walleser's 1914 book, footnote on p. 4: https://archive.org/details/dli.granth.87981/page/4/mode/2up<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Farchive.org%2Fdetails%2Fdli.granth.87981%2Fpage%2F4%2Fmode%2F2up&data=04%7C01%7Clubint%40wlu.edu%7C86bbe6a838a04477e5b608d9140b65b8%7Cd1a80622a99943e58eb67873905e939e%7C1%7C1%7C637562861463029878%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=C%2BvoHekpRtbT6vcxTGxNqt9MBK3j%2Fw7QraV%2FbOLfKVY%3D&reserved=0> K. R. Norman and Gombrich accepted this suggestion. I suppose Pollock got it from Gombrich. Andrew On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 2:22 PM Jim Ryan via INDOLOGY <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Dear all, Sheldon Pollock in The Language of the Gods in the World of Men (p. 52) suggests that the Buddhist term “sutta” does not derive from the Sanskrit sūtra, but rather from sūkta. Sanskrit double consonant clusters do show regular assimilation, regressively and progressively, in Prakrit, where two different consonants become a double of one of them. I’m interested in hearing learned opinion on Pollock’s suggestion. I had not noticed this interesting detail, when I first read this book some years ago. James Ryan Asian Philosophies and Cultures (Emeritus) California Institute of Integral Studies _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flist.indology.info%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Findology&data=04%7C01%7Clubint%40wlu.edu%7C86bbe6a838a04477e5b608d9140b65b8%7Cd1a80622a99943e58eb67873905e939e%7C1%7C1%7C637562861463039871%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=eOl5uCdB%2F2K2b%2BaSM2HRREcQav%2FkBR79FBFX22Cria8%3D&reserved=0> _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flist.indology.info%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Findology&data=04%7C01%7Clubint%40wlu.edu%7C86bbe6a838a04477e5b608d9140b65b8%7Cd1a80622a99943e58eb67873905e939e%7C1%7C1%7C637562861463049864%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Sew1ak1qTbfIKb2P6rn%2BVSME%2BKYdRZORNP7ossZKYSs%3D&reserved=0>
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