Dear Nagaraj,

Thank you for kindly sharing this information.

Best wishes,
Howard

> On Aug 18, 2024, at 11:02 PM, Nagaraj Paturi <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Howard ji,
> 
> Older references can be classified into two kinds:
> 
> 1. Descriptions of Bhakti events in narrative literatures such as narrative 
> portions of Puranas and narrative Sanskrit and other Indian language kavyas 
> 
> 2. Shaastric works
> 
> The word Saatvika bhaavas or the words referring to ecstatic features that 
> are dealt under Saatvika bhaavas in NS and related texts are used in the 
> description of  Bhakti events in narrative texts older than Madhusudana 
> Saraswati and Rupa Goswami. 
> 
> Lyrical texts employed in Bhakti dance earlier than the time of Rupa  , both 
> in Sanskrit and regional languages, used such expressions. 
> 
> NS related later shaastric texts and their commentaries use Bhakti related 
> examples too while dealing with Saatvika Bhaavas. 
> 
> On Mon, Aug 19, 2024 at 3:40 AM Howard Resnick via INDOLOGY 
> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> Thank you! Very helpful.
>> 
>> I’m still interested to know if there are close analogies in earlier writing 
>> with Rupa’s method of analyzing ecstatic states, for example comparing 
>> various emotional states to the physical elements, such as earth, water, 
>> fire, air etc. Or, are there analogies to his categories of sāttvika-bhāva 
>> and sthālyi-bhava? Etc.
>> 
>> I am distinguishing here between two related but discrete systems: that of 
>> rasa, and that of ecstatic states.
>> 
>> Any help here is welcome.
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>> Howard
>> 
>> > On Aug 18, 2024, at 11:59 AM, [email protected] 
>> > <mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
>> > 
>> > Dear Howard,
>> > 
>> > You write:
>> > 
>> > "Rūpa borrowed an analytic structure that is traced first to Bharata Muni, 
>> > at least 1500 years before Rupa, and then to Abhinavagupta who 
>> > significantly developed and refined rasa-vicāra at least 500 years before 
>> > Rūpa. "
>> > 
>> > According to my research, there were two parallel versions of medieval 
>> > rasa schools; Abhinavagupta representing the Vivarta version and Bhoja 
>> > representing the parinama version. Clearly, Rupa has developed his 
>> > theories based upon Bhoja's parinama version of aesthetics. 
>> > 
>> > More on this in my book "The Fifth Veda in Hinduism; Poetry, Philosophy 
>> > and Devotion in the Bhagavata Purana:   
>> > https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/fifth-veda-of-hinduism-9781784531997/
>> > 
>> > I hope it helps and all the very best,
>> >                                                                          
>> > Ithamar
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > ----------------------------------------
>> > Prof. Ithamar Theodor
>> > Indian Studies
>> > Zefat Academic College
>> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>> > Recent Publication: Special Issue on Gandhi, Israel and the Jews
>> > https://link.springer.com/journal/11407/volumes-and-issues/27-3
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > -----הודעה מקורית-----
>> > מאת: INDOLOGY <[email protected] 
>> > <mailto:[email protected]>> בשם Howard Resnick via 
>> > INDOLOGY
>> > נשלח: יום א 18 אוגוסט 2024 05:29
>> > אל: Indology List‏ <[email protected] 
>> > <mailto:[email protected]>>
>> > נושא: [INDOLOGY] Anaysis of ecstasy
>> > 
>> > Dear Scholars,
>> > 
>> > I would appreciate help with the following. In the Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava 
>> > tradition, especially in works of Rūpa Gosvāmī (1489–1564) such as 
>> > Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, but elsewhere too, there are systematic, technical 
>> > descriptions of ecstatic states, such as the aṣṭa-sāttvika-bhāvas etc.
>> > 
>> > We know that in another, related analytic system, that of rasa-vicāra, 
>> > analysis of primary and secondary ‘rasas’ or mood/flavor of personal 
>> > relationship, Rūpa borrowed an analytic structure that is traced first to 
>> > Bharata Muni, at least 1500 years before Rupa, and then to Abhinavagupta 
>> > who significantly developed and refined rasa-vicāra at least 500 years 
>> > before Rūpa. Yet, as Gary Tubb once said to me, Rūpa, with real genius, 
>> > applied to Kṛṣṇa this already ancient system of rasa analysis and 
>> > classification.
>> > 
>> > So, finally my question: in his elaborate analysis and classification of 
>> > ecstatic spiritual states, such as sāttvika-bhāvas and sthāyi bhāvas, is 
>> > Rūpa again applying to Kṛṣṇa-bhakti an analytic system that already 
>> > existed for the analysis of non-Vaiṣṇava, or even Vaiṣṇava, literature? Or 
>> > was the technical analysis of ecstatic states an original contribution of 
>> > Rūpa? I ask because I suspect that once again Rūpa may have been applying 
>> > to Kṛṣṇa-bhakti an analytic system already current.
>> > 
>> > Many thanks for any help with this!
>> > 
>> > Howard
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>> > https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology
>> > 
>> > 
>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
> --
> Nagaraj Paturi
>  
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
> Dean, IndicA
> BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra
> BoS Kavikulaguru Kalidasa Sanskrit University, Ramtek, Maharashtra
> BoS Veda Vijnana Gurukula, Bengaluru.
> Member, Advisory Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthanam, Bengaluru
> Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies, 
> FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education, 
> Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.
>  
>  
>  

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