Dear Colleagues,
I’m no expert in either metallurgy or alchemy, but couldn’t the verse be referring to ordinary metalworking? One heats a metal to make it workable (dhaman might suggest the use of bellows or a blowpipe), and sometimes one submerges it in liquid to cool the metal. Both processes—heating and cooling—require proper timing. In English the process of rapidly submerging the workpiece in liquid is known as quenching. It seems to me the idea of quenching a workpiece, causing it to be “quenched,” “extinguished,” or “calmed” of its fiery properties, falls comfortably within the lexical range of saṃśam and makes good sense in context. Best wishes, Michael Michael S. Allen Associate Professor Department of Religious Studies University of Virginia From: INDOLOGY <[email protected]> on behalf of Paul Thomas via INDOLOGY <[email protected]> Date: Friday, October 3, 2025 at 12:39 PM To: Lyne Bansat-Boudon <[email protected]> Cc: Indology List <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] Question Hi Everyone, I happen to be going through the few verses on alchemy in the Vimalaprabhā, so I have been researching the topic. jāraṇam in an alchemical context (and in a general metallurgic context?) is usually understood to mean "digestion." It is the process by which processed quicksilver incorporates other substances such as mica or metals into itself, which results in "activated" quicksilver that is able to transmute other metals into gold, or the mortal human body into a divine one. māraṇam is linked to this process of digestion. With jāraṇam and the other concomitant processes at the culmination of the alchemical work, the quicksilver is also "killed" (mṛtam), and thus fully activated. On the other hand, I don't know what saṃśamanam would refer to . . . Paul On Fri, Oct 3, 2025 at 9:01 PM Lyne Bansat-Boudon via INDOLOGY <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Dear Matthew, Of course, this is probably a right understanding of the term in the context of Alchemy, and it is undoubtely a technical term, yet it works as a metaphor, by transfer from one realm to another. Semantic derivation, particularly in Sanskrit, owes much to the metaphorical use of words. It could be useful to note other occurrences of the term and the context in which it appears, or to find glosses of the term (saṃśamayet being glossed by jārayet, for instance). However, the research undoubtedly exceeds the scope of the question! Best regards, Lyne ________________________________ De : Matthew Kapstein <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Envoyé : vendredi 3 octobre 2025 16:54 À : Lyne Bansat-Boudon <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Cc : Patrick Olivelle <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>; Indology List <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Objet : RE: [INDOLOGY] Question Dear Lyne, I placed "killing" in quotation marks as it is the term used by Roy. And I believe that this has a special significance with reference to metals in the alchemical context, and should not be confused with life, aging and death among mortal beings. best regards, Matthew Matthew T. Kapstein Professor emeritus Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes, PSL Research University, Paris Associate The University of Chicago Divinity School Member, American Academy of Arts and Sciences https://ephe.academia.edu/MatthewKapstein https://vajrabookshop.com/product/the-life-and-work-of-auleshi/ https://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/book/9781501716218/tibetan-manuscripts-and-early-printed-books-volume-i/#bookTabs=1 https://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/book/9781501771255/tibetan-manuscripts-and-early-printed-books-volume-ii/#bookTabs=1 https://brill.com/edcollbook/title/60949 Sent with Proton Mail<https://proton.me/mail/home> secure email. On Friday, October 3rd, 2025 at 4:48 PM, Lyne Bansat-Boudon <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Dear colleagues, It seems to me that taking root jr̥̄ to mean ‘to kill’ is a bit radical (although it may have this meaning contextually). It's more in the semantic field of old age, wear and tear, decay. See the origin myth of Indian theatre (1st chapter of the Nāṭyaśāstra), in which the well-named demons (the Vighnas) who obstruct (!) the archetypal representation are "torn to pieces" (jarjarībhūta) by Indra, thanks to the pole of his standard, henceforth called ‘jarjara’, and not all of them are killed. Best wishes, LBB Lyne Bansat-Boudon Directeur d'études pour les Religions de l'Inde Ecole pratique des hautes études, section des sciences religieuses Membre senior honoraire de l'Institut universitaire de France ________________________________ De : INDOLOGY <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> de la part de Matthew Kapstein via INDOLOGY <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Envoyé : vendredi 3 octobre 2025 00:12 À : Patrick Olivelle <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Cc : Indology List <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Objet : Re: [INDOLOGY] Question Hi Patrick, You may wish to look at Roy’s History of Hindu Chemistry on the topic of « killing » gold and other metals, in rasaśāstra. The verb used is jārayed, but śam caus. can also mean to kill. Maybe there is more recent work on this as well. best, Matthew On Thu, Oct 2, 2025 at 19:20, Patrick Olivelle via INDOLOGY <[email protected]<mailto:On+Thu,+Oct+2,+2025+at+19:20,+Patrick+Olivelle+via+INDOLOGY+%3C%3Ca+href=>> wrote: Sorry, Johnston translates: “makes it too soft.” Patrick Dear All: In Aśvaghoṣa’s Saundarananda, we have the following verse: dahet suvarṇaṁ hi dhamann akāle jale kṣipan saṁśamayed akāle / na cāpi samyak paripākam enaṁ nayed akāle samupekṣamāṇaḥ // 16.66 // The problem verb is saṃśamayet. Covill translates: "make it cool down”; and Johnston: “bring it to maturity.” My feeling is that the term has a technical meaning within the metallurgic tradition. Someone suggested “make it brittle”, which is tempting, but I do not know that the Sanskrit term has this meaning. Any help from those of you better versed in ancient Indian metallurgy would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Patrick Olivelle _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology >> This message is from an external sender. Learn more about why this << >> matters at https://links.utexas.edu/rtyclf. << _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology
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