Nick,

Would 2pm EST on day this week for you for a google hang out?

Let's plan on review these points I've made along with the notebooks. I'd think 
the likely output is going to be some initial requirements for a new transform 
optimizer for composite transforms and the v4 framework.

Brad

On Aug 1, 2014, at 10:15 AM, Nick Tustison <[email protected]> wrote:

> Sorry, Brad, but I'm currently in Salt Lake at a funeral.  I'd really like to 
> understand better so, if you're available, I can do it anytime during the 
> week on another call.
> 
> Sent from Howling Fantods
> 
>> On Aug 1, 2014, at 7:36 AM, Bradley Lowekamp <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> Nick,
>> 
>> I hope you can make it to today's TCON. I can demo that notebook I linked 
>> too. It should clarify things.
>> 
>> Brad
>> 
>> On Jul 30, 2014, at 1:57 PM, Nicholas Tustison <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>>>> To try to summaries... sorry if have not been clear enough in my 
>>>> explanations.
>>> 
>>> No, I blame me—I’m consistently distracted by the scenery outside here in
>>> California and it’s definitely affecting my ability to concentrate on code
>>> questions.
>>> 
>>>> INITIAL QUESTION
>>>> 
>>>> How does composite transform and the "Center" parameter interact? How does 
>>>> this relate to the virtual domain?
>>> 
>>> The composite transform is agnostic with respect to whether or not a 
>>> transform has a center or any other fixed parameter set.  The only
>>> distinction we make is typology with respect to linear/deformable. To 
>>> be clear, we’re not discussing any of the  “Centered” transforms:
>>> 
>>> * CenteredAffineTransform
>>> * CenteredEuler3DTransform
>>> * CenteredEuler2DTransform
>>> * CenteredSimilarity2DTransform
>>> 
>>> None of those transforms are used in ANTs but I don’t think 
>>> their optimization would be an issue in the new ITKv4 registration 
>>> framework.
>>> 
>>> The virtual domain is simply defined in terms of standard image 
>>> geometry (origin, spacing, etc.) and is currently set in terms of the 
>>> fixed image geometry.  
>>> 
>>>> MY UNDERSTANDING
>>>> 
>>>> 1) Using a "Center" initialized transform only works correctly for a 
>>>> single transform and directly with a composite. ( This is with the current 
>>>> center initializers, a different approach could be done which takes into 
>>>> consideration the composition )
>>> 
>>> I don’t see why it would only work correctly for a single transform.  
>>> Suppose
>>> I optimize a translation transform to get it’s optimal parameters for a 
>>> given
>>> registration problem.  It’s not clear to me why it would be a problem to 
>>> follow
>>> that with optimizing an Euler3D transform (which we do all the time in 
>>> ANTs).  
>>> Obviously, we have to specify a staring point for the second transform 
>>> (which
>>> is identity by default) and perhaps it would be better to have a different 
>>> starting point but I don’t see why starting with the default parameters is 
>>> a 
>>> problem.
>>> 
>>> If the “Center initialized transform” is one of the transforms listed above 
>>> then we don’t use those.  If it’s simply the result of using the 
>>> CenteredTransformInitializer, then we just pull the 
>>> itk::TranslationTransform 
>>> part from the result and push that translation transform into the composite 
>>> transform queue.   I don’t see why it would be a problem to then optimize, 
>>> for example, the Euler3DTransform which just has 3 translation parameters 
>>> and 3 angle parameters to optimize where the center is implicitly defined 
>>> (unlike the CenteredEuler3DTransform which does have additional Center 
>>> parameters).  
>>> 
>>>> 2) The virtual domain should be initialized such that the two images 
>>>> "Center"s are at the origin. This an alternative to using the "Center" 
>>>> transform parameters, and better works with composite transforms.
>>> 
>>> Yes, that would probably be a better initialization but I don’t know why it 
>>> would
>>> be a problem for the current framework to optimize with the origin 
>>> elsewhere.
>>> Right now, each transform within the composite transform queue is 
>>> optimized starting from its identity parameters but perhaps the initializer
>>> idea that you propose would improve optimization. 
>>> 
>>>> I was not aware that 2 was the best practice with the ITKv4 framework. Do 
>>>> we have any examples/test/documentation to indicate this?  Further more 
>>>> using the current CenterTransformInitalizers to initialize the virtual 
>>>> domain is not readily apparent[1] how to map the parameters.
>>>> PROPOSAL
>>>> 
>>>> Perhaps we need a new Initializer filter to assist with initializing the 
>>>> virtual domain to initialize this practice? 
>>>> 
>>>> Brad
>> 

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