Hey Larry, hey all On 12.05.23 17:36, Larry Garfield wrote:
On Fri, May 12, 2023, at 3:12 PM, Andreas Heigl wrote:
[...]
In essence to me the internals list is a group that discusses technical topics regarding PHPs sources. The outcome and the vote whether something will become part of the code is then voted on in an RFC. That is a rather democratic process. When people are not able to convince the majority of the voters that their idea is a good idea for the PHP sources then it might not be a good idea. Having a group of people with elevated privileges in that process is against that long lived and established current process. And it looks like internals is not yet at that point.Again, not the topic at hand. The TC proposal did not change the feature approval RFC process, at all. It was very explicit about that. It was about non-feature decisions that are highly technical. Those simply do not make sense to apply casual direct democracy to. To take the recent example, there's probably only about 10 people who have any meaningful input to give on "should this include statement be here or over here." The other 990 or so RFC voters, quite honestly, do not have anything meaningful or useful to say, and most probably don't even understand the question. And I include myself in that category. On decisions like that, *please do not ask me, I have nothing useful to contribute*.
In other projects I work on these purely technical decissions and discussions are solved using CodeReviews (or Pair/MobProgramming).
That doesn't indeed require an RFC.But in the specific case that we seem to try to solve here - at least from what I have seen and read - I doubt that any CodeReview or entity could have made that less messy.
So I'm still not convinced that we need a special group of people - apart from the already special group of amazing people that are doing a shitload of great stuff for the language.
And the rest is pretty already nicely described in the CONTRIBUTING.md[1] file.
For example:> Discuss any significant changes on the list before committing and get confirmation from the release manager for the given branch.
or> If you "strongly disagree" about something another person did, don't start fighting publicly - take it up in private email.
So in essence we already have the group of people - and they are even elected: The release-managers.
So no need to elect another body My 0.02€ Cheers Andreas[1] https://github.com/php/php-src/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md#git-commit-rules
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