On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 8:29 PM, Stas Malyshev <smalys...@sugarcrm.com> wrote: > Hi! > >> Back on the namespace topic. I won't judge on anything, but i know >> namespaces from c++. I understand that PHP isn't a compiled language >> and quite frankly that doesn't matter at all. What does matter is that >> PHP uses the name: "namespace" which C++ obviously had earlier. > > Here is something that I would like to emphasize. There's no "one right > way" to do namespacing. And while PHP borrows a lot from other > languages, it was never promised or guaranteed that PHP would work > exactly like C++ or Java or Python or Ruby or any other language. If it > makes sense for PHP, it is taken in. If it's not, it is not taken. > > In the case of namespaces, we needed to solve a particular problem of > PHP - global namespace pollution and people inventing super-long really > tedious names to deal with it. Moreover, it is in general *exactly* what > namespaces are solving in each language. Namespaces were designed and > implemented to solve this particular problems, while keeping all other > parts of PHP working properly. > >> Naturally someone that knows both languaes (c++ and php) simply assume >> that a namespace in php probably works the same as those in C++. If >> that's not the case then it shouldn't even carry the "namespace" name. > > I couldn't disagree more. Namespace is a generic term, not belonging to > C++. PHP is not some offshoot of C++ that is required either behave like > C++ or stay away from it. Again, if it made sense in PHP to implement > *generic* concept of namespaces in a *particular way* that C++ does it - > we might do it. But it didn't, so we didn't. We have no responsibility > and no obligation to make implementations of generic concepts match > those in other languages or invent awkward names for those if they do > not. There's a value in behaving like other languages, but it only goes > so far. > Namespaces in PHP are as valid implementation of namespacing as those in > C++, they are just different. You came to it with prejudices about how > they should be working, these prejudices proved to be wrong, now you > know more and you continue to be more productive. This is natural and > happens to many people (myself included) quite often - one assumes > something, one is sometimes right and sometimes wrong. If one is wrong, > one corrects the mistake and becomes wiser. However I can't understand > how it makes sense to blame the language for not matching somebody's > personal background and prejudices. > >> To me this namespace in php stuff just looks like and alias. So why >> isn't it named as that: "alias"? I do not want to question the ones >> that implemented namespaces in php, but i do think that the name >> itself is at the very least confusing. > > It's not an alias. Aliasing is a part of it, but not the whole. > Declaration and the beginning of the file saying "alias My\Database" > makes little sense, declaration "namespace My\Database" makes great > sense - it shows that the file belongs to namespace My\Database, with > all consequences of that. > >> Also, lets keep this discussion polite people. I'm not here to smash >> toes. All i would like to know is the reasoning behind the above and > > I think I have explained the reasoning - specifically, why we have no > global imports - in my previous emails, but if you still have something > unclear, you are welcome to ask. It would make me happier though if you > tried to read through the archives where namespaces were discussed and > see all those arguments so we won't have to repeat them again, even > though I understand that nobody really does that :) > >> if there is any intention of changing the namespaces to be more c++ >> like. > > I would evaluate the chances of it as very small and I would be in a > very vocal and active opposition to that. > -- > Stanislav Malyshev, Software Architect > SugarCRM: http://www.sugarcrm.com/ > (408)454-6900 ext. 227
Oke, it's clear to me now. I understand why PHP decided to do it this way (preventing global scope pollution). I don't agree on that, but it's nice to know the reasoning behind it. Guess i just have to live with it ^_- -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
