Adam, Sascha, > On Jan 13, 2016, at 08:53, Adam Howard <oldschool...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Well, I'm glad someone is in agreement. I really wish we'd get back to the > actual code. Because if not, I do think perhaps PHP Internals as outlived > the email format and should migrate to a forum format. I think I and many > others did not subscribe to a mailing list for this type of argument and at > this point it is becoming hard to follow, assume you were interested in it. > > This little link http://www.php.net/unsub.php to unsubscribe is the last > report, but if this all we're going to keep arguing about, it sure isn't > going to encourage newbies, let alone long-timers such as myself. > > On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 1:26 AM, Sascha Schumann > <sascha.schum...@myrasecurity.com> wrote: > > On January 12, 2016 at 7:05 PM Adam Howard <oldschool...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Can we please move on past this and get back to actual code. Because if > > not, perhaps PHP Internals has outgrown the email format and should migrate > > to a forum type format. > > Agreed.
This is almost exactly the point I was trying to make. There is a serious problem with the conversation on internals, and the immediate reaction is, “there’s no problem, this is a distraction, stop talking about this and talk about something else”. Even if you didn’t *mean* that, that’s what was heard. In one email, and one “me too” follow-up you’ve: * attempted to silence an important discussion * suggested that that the opinion held (and François’ question) is not worthy of discussion * distracted the discussion with an unusable suggestion [* see below] * provided nothing constructive to help actually solve the problem * reinforced the notion that nothing is wrong and everything is fine. THIS is toxic internals. Let me elaborate on the third point, particularly the distracted and unusable bits: You make the assertion that this conversation is an indication that php-internals has outgrown email and should migrate platforms. And you propose an alternative. But you don’t explain *why* you think that this conversation has outgrown email, and even more importantly, you don’t you don’t actually explain *why* a forum format would be an improvement. I’m not saying that a forum *couldn’t* be an improvement. But without you giving any supporting argument, you’ve given nothing concrete that anyone can have a discussion about. It’s not actively helping to solve the problem. It’s just more noise that serves to make people think their comments don’t matter. (For the record: I don’t like forums. And I really don’t see how forums would solve the culture problem. But me saying that, and only that, is just as constructive as you saying only that we should switch to one.) So, your suggestion is unusable, because it provides nothing constructive or actionable; and it is a distraction because the platform we use to talk is *entirely* irrelevant to how people hold conversations on that platform, and rather than discussing the problem, you try to talk about something completely unrelated instead. I didn’t sign up for internals looking to deal with this either. But there is a problem, and it is keeping me from actually contributing code. And I’ve been sitting on the sidelines here for a *long* time. I’m trying to make it so that newbies feel welcome to contribute. I’m trying to make it so that the old-timers who have reduced their participation feel like they can come back and be productive again. I would *love* to talk about code now. I wish we didn’t have to talk about this. But silencing the conversation and wishing the problem away doesn’t fix the the giant elephpant in the room. It just *makes it worse*. -John -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
