And I'll repeat.. If you want to write that code of conduct, please, feel free to actually publish an outline code of conduct here, right now, and I and everyone else will be happy to review it. Because as it stands now, all I hear (read) is arguing and complaining, but you've yet to offer an actual draft (solution).
On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 10:50 AM, James Gilliland <neclim...@gmail.com> wrote: > I'm pretty sure everyone here has ignored emails before. A CoC is pretty > darn important(in my opinion) but if you've decided the discussion isn't > useful to you, just add a filter or just don't open the emails. Its not > that hard. > > > On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 8:52 AM John Bafford <jbaff...@zort.net> wrote: > >> Adam, Sascha, >> >> > On Jan 13, 2016, at 08:53, Adam Howard <oldschool...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > Well, I'm glad someone is in agreement. I really wish we'd get back to >> the actual code. Because if not, I do think perhaps PHP Internals as >> outlived the email format and should migrate to a forum format. I think I >> and many others did not subscribe to a mailing list for this type of >> argument and at this point it is becoming hard to follow, assume you were >> interested in it. >> > >> > This little link http://www.php.net/unsub.php to unsubscribe is the >> last report, but if this all we're going to keep arguing about, it sure >> isn't going to encourage newbies, let alone long-timers such as myself. >> > >> > On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 1:26 AM, Sascha Schumann < >> sascha.schum...@myrasecurity.com> wrote: >> > > On January 12, 2016 at 7:05 PM Adam Howard <oldschool...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > > >> > > Can we please move on past this and get back to actual code. Because >> if >> > > not, perhaps PHP Internals has outgrown the email format and should >> migrate >> > > to a forum type format. >> > >> > Agreed. >> >> This is almost exactly the point I was trying to make. >> >> There is a serious problem with the conversation on internals, and the >> immediate reaction is, “there’s no problem, this is a distraction, stop >> talking about this and talk about something else”. >> >> Even if you didn’t *mean* that, that’s what was heard. >> >> >> In one email, and one “me too” follow-up you’ve: >> >> * attempted to silence an important discussion >> * suggested that that the opinion held (and François’ question) is not >> worthy of discussion >> * distracted the discussion with an unusable suggestion [* see below] >> * provided nothing constructive to help actually solve the problem >> * reinforced the notion that nothing is wrong and everything is fine. >> >> THIS is toxic internals. >> >> >> Let me elaborate on the third point, particularly the distracted and >> unusable bits: >> >> You make the assertion that this conversation is an indication that >> php-internals has outgrown email and should migrate platforms. And you >> propose an alternative. >> >> But you don’t explain *why* you think that this conversation has outgrown >> email, and even more importantly, you don’t you don’t actually explain >> *why* a forum format would be an improvement. >> >> I’m not saying that a forum *couldn’t* be an improvement. But without you >> giving any supporting argument, you’ve given nothing concrete that anyone >> can have a discussion about. It’s not actively helping to solve the >> problem. It’s just more noise that serves to make people think their >> comments don’t matter. (For the record: I don’t like forums. And I really >> don’t see how forums would solve the culture problem. But me saying that, >> and only that, is just as constructive as you saying only that we should >> switch to one.) >> >> So, your suggestion is unusable, because it provides nothing constructive >> or actionable; and it is a distraction because the platform we use to talk >> is *entirely* irrelevant to how people hold conversations on that platform, >> and rather than discussing the problem, you try to talk about something >> completely unrelated instead. >> >> >> I didn’t sign up for internals looking to deal with this either. But >> there is a problem, and it is keeping me from actually contributing code. >> And I’ve been sitting on the sidelines here for a *long* time. I’m trying >> to make it so that newbies feel welcome to contribute. I’m trying to make >> it so that the old-timers who have reduced their participation feel like >> they can come back and be productive again. >> >> I would *love* to talk about code now. I wish we didn’t have to talk >> about this. But silencing the conversation and wishing the problem away >> doesn’t fix the the giant elephpant in the room. It just *makes it worse*. >> >> -John >> >> >> -- >> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List >> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php >> >>
